It’s About Building Something”— Redefining Development and Creating a Lasting Legacy in Women’s Hockey with Kathy Pippy.

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This is Sharpening youg Edge with Chuck and Eric.

In this episode, we'll be speaking with Kathy Pippi.

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Hello and welcome to another episode of Sharpening your edge presented by CV3 Hockey Development.

I'm Chuck Vertolino along with my co host Eric Melanson, and today's guest has a tremendous impact on the girls and women's hockey game today.

She's credited with helping start the Penn's elite girls program.

She's created elite experiences and exposure camps for girls, and she's currently the vice president of Girls Hockey Ops for Premier Ice Prospects, otherwise known as pip, and the current head scout of the Vancouver goldeneyes of the pwhl.

We'd like to welcome to the show Kathy Pippi.

Welcome today.

Hi.

Yeah, thank you very much for having me on today.

It's really looking forward to it.

Kathy, thanks so much for.

First of all, thanks so much for what you do for the women's game and the girls game.

I think it's tremendous to see the growth and the fact that you've had a huge part in that is awesome.

I know Chuck's daughter has been a beneficiary of some of your work, and I think I say it probably every episode.

So I know she's coming to play for you or one of the PIP camps out in Minnesota this summer.

So you got a good one there.

I can't wait to wear her PWHL jersey someday.

But for those that might not know your full story, how did you first get involved in hockey and then kind of what drew you to just focus on the women's game.

Like many people maybe that got involved in a sport or not just hockey.

I have a daughter and she was, we thought, oh, we introduced her to figure skating and thought, oh, this would be a great sport for our daughter.

And she's born in 93 and the penguins won the Stanley Cups back to back years in the early 90s.

So Penguin Hockey was big in Pittsburgh and the rinks were being added and she was doing figure skating.

And one day she came to me with or learned to play flyer.

And I was like, oh no, no, no, like we're not doing hockey.

And she's like, no, I really want to try hockey.

And she was like six.

And so I made a deal with her that for a full season she could play hockey, but she also had to do figure skating because you never know.

And like at the end of the year she might not like hockey and I didn't want her to give up on the figure skating.

And the first time she went on hockey skates she did the toe pick thing and wiped out, but quickly became to love hockey.

And so after the year she did both and she said, I want to stick with hockey.

So she put away the figure skates and that was sort of.

That was that.

That's amazing.

I'm sure that her skating ability was.

She started off a little stronger than most given that she was dual heading as a figure skater and a hockey player.

So was that really what the genesis for you to just get involved in the women's game, given that it wasn't back then, there wasn't a whole lot of.

I grew up a little bit before your daughter and I think I can count maybe two girls that I had on all my co ed teams growing up.

So like there wasn't a huge avenue for the women's game and the youth side of things back then, let alone the professional side.

So is that kind of what drove you to start getting more involved in it?

Yeah, absolutely.

She was obviously, like you mentioned, there were random girls, but she was playing on co ed teams, youth teams.

She did not have an all girls opportunity and she really loved it.

And she was competing at the highest levels, triple A boys, all that.

And it was great.

But she actually became a goalie when she was 7.

She was at a goalie like a regular summer camp and the coach said she should be a goalie.

And similar to my reaction when she first said she wanted to join hockey, I was like, no, no, no, you're not going to be a goalie.

And she's like, no, no, coach said I should be a goalie.

And he told me he, he really had identified some things that he thought would make her a good goalie and what he saw.

And so we, we agreed to let her try it again for a year.

She had to be a goalie and a player.

And, and at the end of that year, she just stuck with goalie.

But in Pittsburgh and like, not dissimilar from a lot of cities and even some cities where hockey is growing now, I have a lot of conversation with people.

You got to start with just one team and kind of grow from there.

But I really did recognize that there wasn't an avenue for female players.

And when I called around and said like, okay, my daughter's, she's a pretty good goalie.

This is at like age 10.

And we went to a goalie camp and it was maybe five girls out of 60.

And I saw some bags of female players that were girls teams.

And I was asking the parents, like, what is this all about?

Because we didn't have girls hockey in Pittsburgh at the time.

And so, yeah, then from there I said, okay, I'm going to start a team.

And I literally a 12 year team.

She was 10.

And I said, okay, we can put together one 12 you team.

And any.

Anytime I saw a girl in a rink or in a parking lot, I was like, hey, I didn't even know if they could, how good they were, how much, how well they could skate.

I was like, how old are you?

And if they were 10, 11, 12, I'm like, I need to talk to.

Your parent that started your scouting journey.

Right?

That was it.

Like, we started with one team, but I really did feel it was important.

And back in those days, my daughter was like, I don't want to play with the girls.

Like, the hockey's not good, as like a kid would say.

And I said, it's important you're a good goalie and we need to show people that, yeah, you could do both.

Like in mid M and M hockey and USA Hockey, you can roster on two teams.

So she did.

She rostered on a girls team along with her boys team.

And I really felt it was important that you lead by example.

If you're a triple A player and boys, you want to get involved with the girls and then also help the girls to come along.

Not just say, like, oh, no, I'm too good to play with the girls.

Yeah, I think that's a sentiment that we had, what Monique Lamoureaux Mirando on a couple episodes ago and she echoed the same sentiment that it was important to kind of not make that full switch, but to play both.

And whether that was her playing on the ponds of Minnesota with our siblings and the local kids.

But I think having the ability to do both is super important.

Yeah.

And I mean, times have changed and obviously hockey's evolved and girls hockey's evolved certainly.

And there are areas in the country that you can just do girls hockey and have really great competitive hockey.

And certainly I support that and I promote that.

But you know, when it's areas where hockey is developing and growing and you still want the girls to have the full development at the highest level that they can compete at.

But at the same time, I felt strongly that my daughter was a really good goalie.

And so I basically challenged her and said, okay, you want to help the girls win?

Like you go out here and we're going to lead by example.

It doesn't matter what the team is like, the wins and losses aren't important, but it's about building something.

Absolutely.

So getting into the Penn's Elite girls, so what exactly inspired you to start the program and what were some of the biggest challenges you faced in the early years?

Well, in the early years, we weren't actually called Pittsburgh Penguins Elite.

We created the name Team Pittsburgh because there were these local, like Powell, that's a local association, like a local league where girls and boys.

There's a boys league and they did have some Girls, like a 12U league and a 14 year league, but it was basically house hockey.

But you would have these kind of girls that were two or three from each organization that were good.

And so we would.

In the later years, when she got to be a little bit older, we started to form teams and have tryouts and all that.

The challenge was ice time because we formed this organization or we formed a team Pittsburgh and we.

And like I said, we called it that because girls were literally coming from all different organizations, whether it was boys, the girls house league, local league.

And we wanted to have a name that really represented like the whole region.

So if you're from Pittsburgh or the region of Pittsburgh, and we wanted you on our team.

So we had the team Pittsburgh and we actually won a national championship under that name at 14U.

And it was the ice time.

And also we didn't have our own association, so we basically had to join on with an association that would essentially roster us.

So from year to year it was different because we didn't have ice time.

And obviously getting the girls together to practice because they were all playing on boys teams and potentially other girls teams or association, like.

Like a high school, a town association team.

So it was just a mixed bag of, like, where the girls were coming from and to get them together.

And that was really the turning point for the girls program in Pittsburgh and having a home and having regular ice, being a part of an organization that has its own charter, and so the boys and the girls together, that's great.

I think it speaks to your perseverance that you weren't going to be stopped.

You were going to create this thing.

Correct.

And that's great that the Penguin, Penn's Elite, eventually folds you guys under the banner.

One of the things that was really important to me, which I'm still involved with, with the Penn's Elite, obviously, but at the time, I didn't know how long my involvement would be.

But when we joined with the Penguins and went into their practice facility, and obviously I gave up control, if you will, of the organization.

But to me, it was to create that lasting program that girls in Pittsburgh now growing up know that, like, if I work hard and become good and make the next levels, that I have a place to play here in Pittsburgh.

To me, that was really important because I had seen from time to time a team would pop up that would be good, but it would basically be a dad who was in hockey or had played hockey and had a daughter, so he would coach that team.

But pretty soon, when she got old enough, good enough, she would go way to a prep school or a hockey academy and that team would just fold.

And so I didn't want not only all of my efforts to kind of be fruitless, but I wanted truly to leave behind a legacy for girls to have a place to play.

Yeah, I think you've done that.

I mean, I think that even Diana McIntyre came in from Utah.

You're not only giving girls within Pittsburgh something to aspire to, it's really nationally.

I mean, you have these.

And internationally, you have these girls all over the country that are.

That's kind of the gold standard they're trying to get to.

Correct.

So that's awesome.

You've had a lot of Pensley girls and boys, but they've had a lot of success on the national championship stage, winning a lot of banners, and you've been around for a while with that organization.

What are some of the things that you've Seen firsthand, that really separated those championship teams.

The ones that won the banner and then the ones that fell short.

I mean, we've had quite a few teams that played in national championship games and then two that won it.

And I mean, obviously it's.

Goaltending is really important.

And even at the youth level and the girls level, having a strong goaltender can really make a big difference.

And I do think in Pittsburgh Penguins Elite, we have had some very strong goaltenders.

On the girls side alone we have Gwyneth Phillips, who is now in Ottawa in the pwhl, was the PWL playoff MVP as a rookie last year.

She was by all counts the second goalie on Team usa, but you know, certainly played some important games and in the World Championships went in cold in the third period when Aaron Frankel got hurt and when that game went into overtime and won the gold medal.

And next in line we have Ava McNaughton.

Ava McNaughton is a two time national champion.

Three time played in the national championship out of three years at the University of Wisconsin, was the third goalie, did get some ice time at the Olympics, was also on the UAT national team as a goalie.

She has a bright future.

One more year at Wisconsin and she'll be drafted high in the pwhl.

And then at the younger ages, we have Bianca Brieda Terry, who just was the U18 national or U18 World Championship goalie for Team USA.

And so that's three elite, elite female goaltenders.

But we've had a long list of other goaltenders starting with the 92 birth year, which was a year older than my daughter.

My daughter's 93 and the 92 went to play at Dartmouth.

My daughter played at Cornell.

We've had a long list of goaltenders that have really excelled from Penn's Elite.

On the boys side, a name that's just popped up.

Not just popped up, but like he's been in the news.

Ryder Fedorov was the OHL goalie of the year and he's from Pittsburgh and was a Penn's Elite goalie from a young age.

So I think there is something about the goaltending at Penn's Elite, which is phenomenal.

So Chuck, have you secured lodging and housing at out there for Annalise in a couple years.

So she, I mean, that seems like the logical place for her to just go out there and really excel.

I mean, you don't want to hold her back, right, Chuck?

Right.

Exactly.

Well, we started having the same reaction.

Kathy did too when she Wanted to be a goalie, Said, you're sure?

No, I don't know.

But now all these opportunities has come about, so maybe.

Maybe it's on the horizon.

We'll see.

What was the vision behind Selects Hockey when you took it on full time?

I always had a lot of different ideas, and I tried to give really great experiences to my daughter and her teammates.

We did travel tournaments, and, like, we went to San Jose for a tournament and we would go to Boston.

And when we would do these trips, we would always make sure to do some sort of historical or cultural activity, because I just felt it was really important.

Like, okay, we're traveling all this way.

Like, you need to learn something about where you're going in, like, San Jose.

I mean, obviously there's San Francisco.

We did the cable cars and Alcatraz and the pier and all the things out there.

And going to Boston and doing the trail, to me, that was just really important.

And the opportunity with select just kind of fell into my lap.

That somebody I knew pretty well had a son that had participated in selects, and he also had a daughter that was playing in, at the time, Team Pittsburgh.

And he was a little bit annoyed with Selects that they didn't offer the same opportunities for girls that they did for boys.

And typical reaction that a lot of hockey guys will be like, oh, I don't know anything about girls hockey.

And it's like, okay, but organizing events and it's the same.

Like, they're just different people, but the event is the same.

You just gotta create these opportunities and they will come.

And so he was challenging them to create some of these European experiences and things.

And they're like, oh, we don't know anybody in girls hockey.

And he said, oh, I know this lady in Pittsburgh.

You should really talk to her.

And they called me and I'm like, what?

Like, I have a real job.

Like, like, I'm not going to work in hockey.

Like.

And they're like, okay, but can you fly out here and meet with us?

So I actually flew out to Philly and I met with them, and during the lunch, they offered me the job.

And I'm like, no, no, I'd like, I have a job like you.

I don't think you could afford me to work for you full time.

And they were like, okay, well, let's try it for a year and see how it goes.

Like, you can you just do it, like, on the side, like, you do the other hockey, but we'll pay you.

So I was like, okay.

And it really worked out well.

I always had the vision that elite hockey, if you want to call it that, or the summer hockey or the elite experiences, was just pay to play if you had money that you could do it.

And so during that lunchtime, I said that to them.

I said, I don't have the greatest opinion of your company in that if you have money, you can pay and you can do it.

I don't think that's what elite hockey should be about.

I think it should be about if you deserve it, you should be able to do it whether you can afford it or not.

And if you can't afford it legitimately, then we need to figure out ways to make it happen.

And they said, well, you're in charge, like you can do however you want.

And so I was actually challenged by that.

I thought, could we actually get the best players regardless of finances?

I didn't want to know what anybody did for a living.

I didn't want to know their financial background.

I wanted to legitimately choose the best players based on their ability.

And so I set out to make a program to do that.

And I really think we've accomplished that.

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That's amazing.

And I think we could probably have an entire episode dedicated to the pay to play and all these other camps and clinics and whatever we want to call them mini tryouts where all these scouts are promised to be there and there's not a single one in attendance or the advertising doesn't match up with reality.

So I mean, that's awesome that you kind of took that on board, especially finances aside, trying to make it both affordable and the right people being there.

And don't get me wrong, I fully respect and appreciate that people are paying a lot of money for our events.

And that's what also motivates me to make sure that people are getting the best experiences and they're getting their money's worth.

I feel it's like a personal integrity thing where if I say these coaches are going to be there, they're going to be there.

And if you look on our website and you see the events, they're updated not daily, but as we find out a new coach is coming or one drop for whatever reason.

We're updating the websites so when people sign up for an event, they know exactly what they're getting.

And as a customer, I'll back you up on that because I've seen other programs out there do the advertising.

Like Eric said, you go there and there aren't those coaches there.

But for all the events that Annalise has been to, I 100% back you up as a customer and say what you're saying is truthful.

And any college or coach or player that you say is going to be there is 100% always there.

So Kudos to you and the program that you're building there.

So you mentioned San Jose, San Francisco, Boston, kind of the US Tour, if you will, but you've also done France, Sweden, Italy.

What was the reasoning behind wanting to take it on the international stage?

Was it partly to give that cultural experience, but was it also to kind of grow the game internationally, to have these folks play with other people they may encounter on that world stage someday?

Yeah.

So when I first started with selects, like that was their actual mission to me was to build these two teams to go to Europe.

And we went to Prague that very first year.

It was a 98 birth year.

And at the beginning I thought, oh, this is really cool, and like, the kids will get this great experience.

But I really didn't fully understand the impact that it would have on these players and their future.

And now I do, fully 16, I guess 17 seasons already now, just having gotten back from France into it.

I have these players that are now in the PWHL that have played on the national teams, that have played in the Olympics, that have played NCAA hockey, who will tell me that these trips to Europe were the single best hockey experience they ever had.

And it's all the things that you mentioned.

It's the competitive hockey that's first and foremost.

You have to have good hockey.

But they culturally, now, especially with social media, they become friends with girls on the other teams, whether they're from Sweden or the Czech Republic or Czechia.

Now I guess they call it Czechia, Slovakia, Sweden, Finland, Germany, France.

They're playing with all these players.

And I tell them now because I know it to be true, because I've.

I didn't know it in the first year, but If I have four teams in France, and that's a mix of U.S. and Canadians, there's a very real possibility that anywhere from 10 to 20 of those girls will play in Team USA or Team Canada in the future in the UA teens.

And I'm like, when you're doing a face off and you're looking across at a Czech girl, there's a distinct possibility that you'll see those same eyes in the future years.

And it's really crazy because I've actually had girls tell me, like, oh, yeah, I remember facing off against her in Prague.

And now they're on the world stage at the world championships.

Those countries are so small in the hockey world, and for them, for the girls to be able to compete against other girls their own age, there's nowhere that they can do that.

Because at the 13 and 14 year old ages, those girls in those countries are all playing on boys teams.

We or they're playing on older girls teams where they might be on a 16 year team or even a women's team at that age because that's the level of hockey that they're at.

So for them to be able to come to an event and play against girls or own age, it's number one.

It's motivating for them because they can see like, hey, I'm pretty good, I'm excelling at my own age.

And hopefully they don't quit hockey because if you're 13 or 14 and you're in Slovakia or the Czechia and you know you're playing with women or you're playing with boys, like at some point it might not be that interesting anymore or fun, but to actually play against girls your own age and see how good you are.

And now you can dream, you can think like, oh, I can play NCAA hockey or I could play in the PWHL in the future.

Like, I really think that these events for these young girls at 13 and 14 really help keep girls motivated and grow hockey in those other countries.

That was perfect.

It was exactly what I was looking for.

And it made me write down kind of a side question, if you will.

So you mentioned these girls playing up several birth years or 12 year old and you're playing against women essentially or with women, there's going to be a lot of burnout.

There's got to be a lot of stress, a lot of pressure on these girls to perform.

And I know that USA Hockey has done a great job in the recent years of really prioritizing mental health.

And we're talking about it more and we're making everybody aware of the stresses that we're putting on these young athletes.

Have you seen the same level of commitment to prioritizing mental health from some of these other countries or are they still a little bit behind?

I don't really know, to be honest.

I mean, I haven't seen negative or positive in that regard.

I will say that I do think there's something to be said for these young women and call them women, but they're, I mean, they're still girls, 13 and 14 years old.

To be able to play against their own age and to feel that success.

Czechia won.

We lost last week and it was the first time in seven years that a PIP team hasn't won the WSI World Selects invite.

And I'm thrilled that Czechia won it because there's a group of People, a small group, but one in particular woman, and she has some support, but she's been recruiting these girls from Czechia to come to this event and, and to form this check selects team.

And they've been doing great, but for them to win, it's like now they have to be so motivated to come back next year.

And not only this group also competes, there's two birth years in a row that go.

This year we were in Chamonix with the youngest, but the next.

And of course our teams are going to be motivated to try to beat them and they're going to be motivated to try to keep the title.

And that to me, without that competitive spirit, you can't keep developing.

You don't have anything to strive for.

And so from the mental health side, I do think it is beneficial for these girls.

I can't imagine being a 14, 15 year old and just playing with women all the time.

I mean, it's fine, I'm sure nothing bad happens, but it can't be that fun for them because women have different.

Lives, stages of life.

So like there's really not that that culture is going to be completely different.

Right.

But I become friendly with these coaches and organizers that, that stick around for a good number of years.

And so for example, Sweden had beaten us in the wsi.

And because you had Covid, obviously there were a few years off there, but they beat us.

And granted we're bringing four teams from North America, so if we just build one team that would be a little bit different.

But we're building four super competitive teams in North America and Sweden is bringing their best team and they beat us that year.

And the guy that was the team, the organizer, he told me that their girls looked at it as if like, we can beat North America, we can beat us and Canada.

And before that they always had the mentality that they were happy to get to just compete for third place in the World Championships is like us and Canada is always going to get first and second.

We, we're just going to compete for third.

But he said when they won that 14 year old tournament, they thought to themselves, like, we can beat US and Canada.

And that really motivated them to go forward.

And they did end up getting the silver medal in the U18 World Championships.

That's awesome.

That's such a cool story.

Yeah, it's great to hear too, the international game growing for girls and women.

Because since the women's hockey game, the Olympics came on this world stage in 98, it's just like you said, been US and Canada just dominating the competition.

But it's good to see for the girls and women's game that it can only grow from here to see teams like Czechia and Sweden doing so well and developing players over there as well.

So the game is just going to get better and better every year.

Coming out of COVID Unfortunately, Selects had folded because of not having any revenue and don't want to rehash all the negativity from COVID but myself and three other people who are all still employed with us now, we decided to start the company because we actually initially a response from players that had played in the program that reached out to me and had heard about Select's folding and said, Kathy, like you, you really need to start your own thing.

Like, you really need to create something for girls.

Like if you're not doing it, like who's going to do it?

And I had never really looked at it that way.

I was initially looking at it like, okay, for my first time in my adult life, I don't have a job.

And so I was like, okay, let's start something.

And we started something.

And we were literally like, okay, where can we hold camps?

Because tournaments weren't going on and the whole season was just different.

You could do a camp in the middle of the regular season because teams weren't playing or like, whatever.

And so we just, we were like, where can we start camps?

And let's like New York, you could do camps, but you couldn't play games.

So like, okay, let's have a camp weekend.

And then all of a sudden it was like, Pennsylvania, Ohio, you could play games, but you could only have so many teams.

So I was like, okay, let's invite Detroit, Little Caesars and BK Selects and Philly to come and play Pens.

And we literally would.

We just shifted like every time we were hit with, oh, this state's shut down.

It's like Michigan shut down.

We were going to have a tournament and we moved it to Fort Wayne, Indiana.

I don't think I'd ever been to Fort Wayne, Indiana.

I've been there.

It's not great.

And Indiana was open and to be honest, it was great.

When we were there, they were open for business and we had a little mini tournament.

And so we gained the respect, I think, of teams and organizations because we were willing to take on the.

A lot of coaches, most coaches, they have other full time jobs and they don't have time to be figuring out where they're going to play games.

They just want to know we're going to play somewhere.

And Kathy is going to figure out if it's Columbus, Ohio or Pittsburgh or Fort Wayne, Indiana or Detroit, whatever was open.

We were willing to go there.

And obviously the ranks will work with us because so much was shut down.

And so that's how we started.

And then from there we just grew and we had our relationships with the college coaches, which frankly, I think is untouched in the world of women's hockey.

We really value our strong relationships with the college coaches and they value that we bring together like top players that they can scout and recruit and work with on the ice and get to know.

You built something pretty special and you've worked with a measurable amount of NCAA and national team players over your years and it's clear that your model for premier ice prospects works.

The girls game is evolving pretty rapidly.

I had a chance to go to the Fleet Victoria game at Boston Garden a couple of weeks ago, my kids, and it was awesome.

I mean, the experience was like nothing I've ever experienced before and it was just a regular game.

So as the growth of women's hockey is just continuing to outpace everything else, what's next for premier ice prospects?

Like, what do you see on the horizon?

Something that you want to shift to or how do you want to.

Where is that going to go in the future?

Well, I mean, for us, we feel like all of our events are relatively small.

I mean, some tournaments in the regular season, there's a couple that are large.

But focusing on the spring and summer, which is more of our development slash exposure opportunities for girls, we do keep them relatively small.

And I do believe in quality over quantity.

I'm not trying to build the biggest showcase.

I'm not trying to have 500 kids at a showcase.

I think our largest we have 216 kids.

It's very well established.

It's been around since back even when I was with Slugs.

And we have 24 Division 1 coaches that do that one.

And like this year I think we have 17 of those being head coaches, which is crazy number but we have really good relationships with those college coaches and I feel like we've done a really good job of getting the top girls from the US We've obviously been in the Canadian market.

We have the strong participation in Ontario, we have some from Quebec and we're getting stronger out of Vancouver, the Seattle, Vancouver region with the Kraken and us having had a camp out there for a few years now.

But our next focus is really to grow our Canadian market and to get more camps and development.

We have a camp in Halifax, Nova Scotia, one in Ottawa, one in Whitby and then one in Niagara Falls.

So we do have five.

We're really looking to expand.

We do have the Montreal Meltdown which we purchased this year is the first year, it actually starts tomorrow and we have the girls the next two weekends.

And so we're trying to expand our footprint into Canada.

And now let's take a quick break to hear from our partners.

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Enjoy this episode of their show and have fun skating.

Take care.

That's fantastic.

So I'm sure they're chomping at the bit to to take advantage given that the US has had such overwhelming success on the men's and women's stage the last couple years.

So I'm sure that they won't.

They're going to see it as it's working.

So Eric and I have been in the trenches for a little bit as well and we've seen things firsthand with the things that are going on in the youth hockey landscape today.

So when Eric and I first sat down and we got the idea of the podcast, the number one thing was let's educate parents, coaches, players as well.

So since this is an educational podcast, we wanted to have guests on like yourself to talk about the landscape in your eyes and on the misconceptions as well.

So you've helped hundreds of players reach NCAA Division 1 to Division 3 levels.

What do you think families often misunderstand about the recruiting process.

I mean, it's one of the things that is probably the most rewarding but at the same time can be the most frustrating and perplexing situation for parents.

Because while I can tell people, and I don't advise for money or anything like that, but anyone that's in our program if they ever have a question about the recruiting process, I field phone calls, field emails, I'm happy to help at any time.

Like, that's just my fundamental belief.

I'm here to help.

But no matter how much I help, at the end of the day there's nobody or no connection that can get you a scholarship or onto a team.

If it's like you're trying to get onto an IV or, or even a walk on position, it doesn't matter how well you're connected or who you know.

At the end of the day, it comes down to how you perform on the ice.

And while myself as a totally unbiased even some parents like you think, okay, they're looking at their kid through rose colored glasses.

But even me in an unbiased position, I can watch a kid and go, I just don't know how that kid's not committed.

But if the coaches don't see that or they don't see that that person fits what they're looking for in a role or a spot, then it doesn't matter how good you are or it doesn't matter how good other people think you are.

It only matters what the 40 plus head coaches in the D1 world.

And then obviously there's a lot more in the D3, but it can be very frustrating.

And I am a strong believer in things always work out as they should.

And I try to tell people as much as parents want their kids to play D1, and I think in most cases, the vast majority of the cases, the parents are coming at it from a place of love for their child, and they've seen their child working hard and their child wants to play D1 so badly that the parent wants that, especially for girls.

I think dads want to be able to help their daughter achieve her goals.

Goals to play Division 1.

They want that so badly for their daughter.

But at the end of the day, if they end up playing D3, it's phenomenal.

And I've watched players that were bubble players that could have gone D1, that went D3, that went.

Won four national championships in D3 at Plattsburgh and had the parents call me up and just say, thank you, thank you.

Because you explained to us the process.

And I'm like, look, your daughter can be a walk on and a D1 and maybe not never dress or if she does dress, maybe not play or does she want to really play?

No, she wants to really play.

Well, then she should go D3.

And I think most parents, really, the vast majority of parents, are coming at it from a place of love and like, really trying to help their daughters.

But it can be very frustrating.

It can.

It's.

There's only so many spots.

Yeah.

I mean, it's tough.

It's.

And the game is only growing.

Right.

So you're going to start seeing.

You probably see some of these SEC teams get to get the Division 1 program shortly.

Who knows?

Hockey could really take off in the south with all the money that these SEC schools.

I would love that.

I would love to see more Division 1 for sure, and more Division 3 for that matter.

I just think the process is very perplexing.

It's not like I can just say you do X, Y and Z and you're going to get to a D1 school.

I can tell you what X, Y and Z you should do, but there's still no guarantees.

Absolutely.

I think Chuck and I hit it all the time.

And our guests echo it that everybody's got their own path.

Right.

So it's even harder when you're trying to blaze your own path and grow where you're supposed to.

You're also trying to fit this role for a certain team, right?

Because everybody on a team's got a role as well.

So it's just, it's hard.

But for you, the skill is one thing.

Men's women, whoever, whatever, everybody's focused on skill, whether it's skating or passing, small area games, etc.

Outside of the skill for folks, for girls that are trying to make it to the next level, whether that's D3 or D1 or whatever, beyond.

What have you noticed outside of skill that these players should really start to focus on?

Is that the offline stuff, should they get in the gym more?

Should they.

Where should they look to help themselves out a little bit more?

Well, I can save the number one thing that cannot be overlooked if you have it, is the scoring.

If you have the ability to score in women's hockey, you have a skill above others.

So what leads to scoring?

Shooting a lot of pucks.

There's stories about Haley Wynn shooting 35,000 pucks a year while she was at Clarkson.

If you can shoot the puck and score, that's an elite skill that's lacking in the women's game.

Goalies are all good.

In these teams in the pwhl, ncaa, there's a lot of good goalies.

So if you can score, but outside of that, that's skill, obviously.

But in skating, but skating, I mean, if you can't skate, you're.

You're gonna get right crossed off.

Because at every level you have to be able to skate and keep up, right?

But outside of that, intangible things are the off ice, like your character, the grades.

Like, yeah, everyone says, like, oh, you need to focus on your grades.

But when you get to college, if a college coach has to worry about whether or not you're going to be eligible or you don't do certain assignments, you fall behind.

Maybe you can't go on a road trip or your bench for a game because the school's saying, hey, they're not meeting their requirements.

A lot of these schools, Division one have study hour.

You got to report to a study hall place where there's tutors there to help you.

But if you don't meet the requirements, then you're not eligible.

That's the last thing a college coach wants to worry about.

They're trying to win hockey games.

Their job is on the line.

They based on their wins and loss records.

So all those off ice, intangible things, while people say it and it's like, yeah, yeah.

No, it's reality.

Because if you can't hack it in the classroom, you don't apply yourself and do what you're supposed to do.

The coach is going to say, you're more of a liability than you are worth having around.

And the character, it's the same thing.

If you're not a good teammate, if you're causing trouble in the locker room because you're not dressing or you're on the bench and you're not playing and you're there rolling your eyes or you're not like, again, you're becoming a liability.

So those things are important.

People need to understand that.

Yeah, I want to take it a step further just for one second because it's something we've talked about with some of the scouts we've had on before.

And you're in a unique position where you do a lot with these high elite level youth athletes.

How much have you taken into account some of the parents behaviors?

Right.

Because at this point it's very cutthroat and there's.

Everybody wants the best for their kids, but sometimes the parents get a little too much.

And how much from a recruiting perspective do you say, I really want this kid, but man, their parents are a handful of.

Has that ever come up for some of your summer programs or wherever?

Oh, no, it comes up.

And there's definitely people, for lack of a better description, that their kids are blackballed because of the way the parents act.

So I myself and I will direct my staff to go above and beyond, to do everything we can to try, but if it gets to a point that it's unbearable and there's, it's just, it's not acceptable.

Those behaviors are not acceptable.

And I have had conversations with parents in my younger years.

I would be maybe afraid to do it and think like, oh, the, the kid, the parent won't want them to participate anymore now.

And I have no qualms, especially of a really good kid.

I'll tell a parent like, hey, your daughter's special, she's very good.

She's going to be a very good hockey player.

But you might ruin it for her.

You need to sit back, enjoy it, allow her to be a really good hockey player.

She's going to get to where she needs to go.

You sign her up for things, you pay, you support her, but she has the ability to get there.

You don't need to ruin it for her.

And I want to say that about 90 plus percent of the times when I have those conversations, I do think it works?

Because I think people realize that, like, I mean, I know what I'm talking about.

Like, I'm not gonna just say something to give somebody a hard time.

But there have been cases where I specifically remember a time a parent complained to me and this coach wasn't using her right?

And this, we're talking spring hockey here.

And I'm like, you know what?

I'm happy to give you a full refund.

And, and we don't need.

And this player now is a very, very good player in the pwhl.

But now her dad knew him through when he, when she got older and she did some of my events when she was older and in college and he always approached me and thanked me.

And so I do think people get the message.

But unfortunately now I've seen it more and more and there are just some parents that it's not worth, it's not worth having their kid around.

Unfortunately.

No, I think that's music to my ears.

I'm sure Chuck feels the same way.

So I'm glad that you're doing it and you're trying to make a change.

It's reassuring to hear that you're having such high success and that years later the parents will come back to you and say, hey, you were right.

Thanks.

Well, they never really said I was right, but they, they did still talk to me and buy me a drink or something from time to time.

So yeah, they got the message.

So Eric mentioned a little earlier that we had Monique Lamoure Mirando on a couple episodes ago.

So I urge the audience to go listen to that episode.

That was a great one.

But within the episode she spoke about all the blood, sweat, tears that went into the growth of the women's game and she shared some stories that her and her sister went through to try to build the girls game and eventually would lead to where we are today with the pwhl.

I also recently watched Rise, which was the Peacock special.

If audience.

If you haven't watched it, I highly recommend it.

Rise, which was documentary on the first season of the PWHL and you saw all the behind the scenes work work of Kendall Coyne and how she helped grow the game.

So you've also had a front row seat to it.

What changes have been the most meaningful for you for the girls game and women's game?

Oh, I just think the amount of opportunities for girls.

You could go to.

You could go to camps, but you were going to boys camps.

My daughter never went to an all girls camp or an all girls goalie camp outside of like USA Hockey, like development camps.

But now I have tons of competition and tons of people that are doing spring teams and elite level spring teams and camps and showcases.

And to me that's amazing.

That's music to my ears.

Like there's more opportunities.

The number of hockey academies that have started for girls alongside boys ones, but like they didn't exist.

There was maybe one in New England and Shattuck.

That was it.

And other than that, you would go to a New England prep school and have to do the club thing, which is still a great option for a lot of people.

But I mean you have multiple situations.

With Pittsburgh Penguins elite, we have the Excel Hockey Academy which is in partnership with a Catholic high school.

There's dorms there for the girls.

BK Select Academy started now they have six teams with four boys teams.

But they started as one girls team which grew into two girls teams.

And I was helping them found that program.

And so there's just so many more opportunities for girls than there were 15 years ago.

And that is the most amazing thing.

And hopefully, and not hopefully, I know that it's going to continue to grow.

We've talked about a lot and there's the game is growing agnostic of gender, but you know the women's game tremendously.

What excites you most about the future of the girls game?

I think what excites me the most is that like you look at the PWHL and the expansion that's going to happen now, most likely four teams.

I mean, I don't think I'm speaking on a school that's been publicly stated that girls hockey is going to grow in those markets just like it's grown in the US In Vegas and California and Seattle and Dallas and Florida and all of these places which have NHL clubs.

Girls hockey is growing.

The Florida Panthers just announced a girls hockey initiative where they're having a tier two to start with teams.

But I'm quite confident in short order they're going to have tier one teams.

And you have a tier one program in Seattle and you've got a tier one been going on for a while in California and Vegas is going to have a tier 1 16U team this year.

And so wherever these new markets are, they're going to even have more excitement and more growth.

And I think that in itself, because back not too long ago, I mean, really the only place that you could grow up, I mean, grow up by start playing hockey and stay all the way through high school, was if you happen to live in Detroit, Chicago, New England, or Minnesota for girls, those were the only places if you lived anywhere else and played hockey.

You had to move away from home if you were going to be at the elite levels.

And certainly a lot of people still do leave, but there's more and more opportunities where girls don't have to leave home if they don't want to.

And I just think that is the most exciting thing, that there's so much growth on the horizon for girls hockey.

I love it.

So you joined selects.

You had experience there.

You're credited with helping to start the Pensley girls program.

You've worked with D1, D3 coaches.

So who better to ask?

This question for our audience is, if you could give one piece of advice to a young female player that has big dreams and big goals and big aspirations, what would it be?

One piece of advice?

Just one.

Well, this is kind of cliche, but you got to really follow your heart.

Like, if you love this, you have to love, love it for me.

You know the saying, if you have a job you love, you'll never work a day in your life or some kind of thing like that.

And the same thing for hockey, like, it shouldn't be work.

If you really love it and you want to get to those elite levels, you should be putting in the work every day because you want to.

That's what motivates you.

That's what drives you.

If that isn't your passion, then find what is your passion.

It doesn't have to be hockey.

There's so many wonderful things out there.

But if hockey isn't truly your passion, then you need to find what your passion is.

Like, you should just love doing it and working at it every single day, because that's your passion.

For me, I don't know if you can hear it in my voice or when I talk.

Like, girls hockey is truly my passion.

I love it.

And so every day when I go to work, like, I'm never working a day in my life, and I feel like in a roundabout way, that's how it should be for girls playing hockey.

I love it.

I mean, that's like Chuck and I talk about it.

I mean, this is.

This podcast for Chuck and I is because we love talking about this, it's the only reason why we do it, other than to highlight important people in the community that are doing great things and to help grow the game the right way.

Now, you've had so much success, and I'm sure it wasn't all rainbows and butterflies along the way.

There were speed bumps and nothing's linear.

But what are you most proud of?

If you were to reflect back from that day where you get handed that paper to now, what are you most proud of?

I'm really proud of the girls and, like, what they've accomplished and the fact that you have so many trailblazers like Kendall Coyne, who is only a year older than my daughter, and they were friends back when they were at USA Hockey national camps together.

And you look at the trailblazers like her and Hillary Knight, and then you look at even the Gwyneth Phillips of the world, and these girls all have the passion for the sport.

And when I see them and what they accomplish, like, I'm so proud of that.

Like, I'm so proud of those young ladies who never stopped believing whether it was that there could be a league.

I mean, you take Gwyneth Phillips, for example, and I've known her since she was 10 years old.

She was a backup for three years in college hockey.

Any other large number of people would have transferred, not because of selfishness or anything, just because they wanted the opportunity and weren't getting it and could go somewhere where they could get it.

And Buenitz was.

Had so much integrity and loyalty and loved Northeastern and said, you know what?

I love it here at Northeastern.

And because of COVID Aaron Frankel got that extra year, and Gwyneth was backing her up for three years, but never once did she doubt herself or doubt.

And I literally had a conversation with her, and I go, gwyneth, you're going to get an opportunity.

And when you do, don't suck.

You're a goalie.

You got to face reality here.

You're going to get a shot.

You can't suck.

And whenever I see her now and she had a really good game, I was like, you didn't suck.

And.

And it's like, that makes me so proud that there's so many stories like that with girls and women and the whole universe of women in women's hockey have now persevered and helped create this league.

And so watching all of those girls from the time they're 10, 11, 12.

When I first see them and watch what they achieve it, that to me, just like there's no other feeling like it.

That's the biggest pride that I get.

And some of them are off ice.

Like they went to Soroya Tinker.

Do you know that name?

She's an announcer with the PWHL on tsn, and she went to Yale and she was on my very first team.

And she told me years later that she didn't even know she was a good hockey player until she came to my tryout and saw herself against these other girls and was like, wow.

And then she started to dream like, I can play Division 1 hockey.

And then she started to dream like, I can go to an Ivy League.

And she went to Yale, graduated from Yale, is this phenomenal, highly intelligent person, and now is broadcaster on tsn really doing amazing things.

And it has nothing to do with her ability that she was on the ice, but hockey gave her an opportunity that she would have never had.

And so all of those things of, like, watching these, you know, young women grow up and really flourish is what gives me the biggest pride.

I mean, I think the one thing that we haven't talked about, and I'm sure Chuck will ask you if we've missed anything, but I'll throw it in there, is that the rise of the women's game and such, it's such an elite level, is having such a big impact.

And I know, at least for my kids personally, even on the boys side, too, I mean, the guys, it is so awesome to see.

I mean, my son, I don't remember almost a year ago, was up here in Massachusetts and was in a shooting room, and in walked somebody that had just been drafted a PWHL player.

I wish I could remember her name.

Chuck, I texted it to you, but I can't remember now.

But yeah, she just walked in there and started giving him tips on shooting.

And she spent almost an hour with him just because she was at the same rink.

And he came out like it was.

He just like, he just met Gretzky.

He was the greatest thing in the world for him.

So I think what you're doing is truly remarkable.

Your previous answer just says it all.

So, I mean, and then I'm just going to tell people from now on just not to suck, because that's awesome.

Or I'm just.

If they do suck, I'd just say maybe suck less next time.

Yeah.

And a true testament to you on the growth of your program.

And you could tell just when you speak about it and the relationship you still have with the players you had that are in the PWHL now that you've known since 10 years old.

Right?

Eric and I speak about this all the time on the podcast.

I guess it's the same with teachers, too, right?

When we look back on our youth hockey days, we don't remember how many goals we scored or what tournaments we won, but we remember those coaches that really invested their time and really, you could tell, cared about their players.

And just talking to you here in this last hour, you can really tell, and I'm sure our audience would agree that you really do care about these girls and a true testament to yourself and your program.

So kudos to you.

So you are.

You seem to make yourself accessible to pretty much anybody and everybody.

And I know you're extremely busy.

You're sitting in South Bend, Indiana now.

So for those listening, what's the best way to get in touch with you, to get in touch with Premier Eyes prospects is social media, is email.

What's the best way to.

To reach out to get more information for their young daughter or for themselves?

I mean, we do have a.

We do, obviously, I like to put in a little plug.

We encourage everyone to follow our social media media, particularly Instagram.

I think we do a really good job.

We have a great team that focuses on that and that's obviously where we post information about our events and upcoming events.

People do reach out to us through the messenger and then I usually ask them to email.

So if you go to our website, PremierizeProspects.com we have all of our staff on there.

All of our emails are on there.

So if it's about development, it's myself or Maddie Hartman.

Are the two.

And then tournaments, it's myself or MacKenzie seven.

But you can find all that information right on our website.

And we're.

I think I take pride in that.

We get back to people in emails and if people do text me, I try to get back pretty quickly.

But sometimes on social media, like sometimes even like Facebook messenger, sometimes you don't see it right away.

So I think email is probably the best way.

Awesome.

Well, thank you for doing that.

Thank you for doing everything you do well.

Thanks for having me on.

It's really exciting to talk hockey for an hour.

Oh, we can tell you love it.

I mean, I'm sure you'd go all night just talking about it, and I'm eating it up.

I've taken notes.

This is wonderful.

But I think Chuck has one final question for you that we ask everybody.

Okay.

Yes.

So what is your definition of development?

Could be any aspect of the word.

Mental, physical, Any aspect.

I just think growth, like, in one word, it's growth, like, and that can be mental in that you might learn something if you come to one of our events and you have a college coach or you have a PWHL player or a current college player as a counselor or on the bench helping you out, and they might say something to you, be open minded.

But you can always grow.

You can always learn, whether it is a preparation for the game, whether it's a new skill or a new technique, and you have to be open minded to it.

But the only way to continue to develop is to continue to grow physically and mentally.

I love that.

Yeah, I mean, I hope that the kids are taking full advantage of the excellent folks you have on staff there.

I mean, just picking their brains about literally anything and everything that's just to be in the same room and share some ice with them.

Is amazing opportunity for these young girls.

Yeah, it really is.

And it goes a long way.

It's amazing when they can go to a camp.

And Annalise got to work with Gwyneth Phillips when she was still in Northeastern when she went up to Boston for a camp.

And this past summer, Taylor Gerard from the Sirens was one of the coaches.

So it really does mean a lot to the girls.

Keeps them involved and keeps the joy of the game going for them.

So great job from a customer and a dad and.

And I'm not the only one that has said it.

A lot of people have come up to me and said the same thing, and that's why people stick with your program.

So thanks again for joining us, taking the last hour and 15 out in South Bend.

So we truly do appreciate it.

Thank you for giving some knowledge to dropping some knowledge for our audience as well.

Well, thank you guys so much for doing this because, like, when I did do a couple other podcasts, like, I had so many people going like, oh, I listened to that podcast and really appreciate what you had to say.

And I was like, wow.

Like, I. I didn't know.

But it does make a really positive impact on people to have things like this to be able to listen to.

Yeah, we're happy to give you a platform and folks like you to really champion all the great work that you're doing and to really highlight it across the globe or hopefully across the globe someday for us.

But it's wonderful and I commend you for what you're doing.

So thanks.

Thanks for taking the time out of your absolutely busy schedule and missing out on tacos and margaritas and lovely South B.

All right, well share with a friend, coach, parent or player if you think they may be interested and benefit from this podcast.

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