Give More, Be More: Jeff Lovecchio’s Blueprint to “Be Where Your Feet Are”

Foreign this is Sharpening youg Edge with Chuck and Eric.

In this episode, we'll be speaking with Jeff Lovecchio.

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Welcome to another episode of Sharpening youg Edge, presented by CB3 Hockey Development and brought to you by our title sponsor, Roster Hub.

So today we welcome a former pro hockey player, current trainer, advisor speaker, and co host of the popular hockey podcast, the Hockey Think Tank, Jeff Lavecchio.

Vex, welcome to the show.

Yeah, thanks for having me on, guys.

Super excited to be here.

Let's go, baby.

I love the swag on Eric here, too.

Hey, gotta rock the goods, man.

Yes, sir.

All right, Jeff, appreciate you jumping on.

This is awesome.

We had top on as well, so had to bring on the face of the operation.

Yeah.

Let's go, baby.

You had the brains, now you got the model.

That's what I'm talking about.

All right, so you grew up about the same.

We're about the same age.

You grew up in St. Louis playing hockey as a youngster at the time.

Not necessarily the biggest hotbed for hockey, let alone youth hockey, I'd imagine.

So what was it and maybe at what age were you like, you know what?

I want to do this thing for a career.

I love it.

I'm all in.

Where did that kind of transition for you from having fun to like a let's go to work?

For me, it was probably eighth grade because my first year AAA was in seventh grade.

And you say, oh, we weren't a hockey hop, and we weren't a hockey anything.

When I played for AAA, there was only one AAA team here in St. Louis back then, St. Louis Triple A Blues, and we were in the Michigan National Hockey League, which is Triple A league.

It had all the best teams in the country.

Honey baked Little Caesars, Ti CYA and Madison, Little Capitals or whatever they were called back then.

And the conditions for letting us in the league were that nobody thinks we're good enough to waste time traveling to so that we had to go out of town for all of our games.

And so like, literally, like that was the stigma in St. Louis.

And I distinctly remember being at select 16 in Michigan at a camp and some kids from Detroit thought I was asleep.

I was just like trying to fall asleep.

And I literally heard him say, man, these kids from St. Louis aren't that bad.

And.

And I got so freaking pissed off because I'm like, what do you mean, dude?

We like what we play in the same league.

Like, I beat teams that you beat.

So it was not looked at as like a, as a big hockey city at all.

But to answer your question from seventh grade, I barely played.

That was my first year at aaa.

Asked my coach at the end of the season what I need to do to work on to be better, to help the team win, to help me make the team the next year.

And I worked on it relentlessly all summer and I got way better.

And that's when I caught the bug of, oh man, like, if I just work harder than everybody else, like, I'm like passing guys up, I'm moving up the depth chart, I'm putting up more points.

And so that seventh grade summer to eighth grade, like, was a really, really big one for me.

And then I just lived that way up until now.

Now I know currently you're.

You seem to be like that and you throw yourself into everything, right?

You're all in.

Were you like that with all your things growing up?

I mean, I know we focus on hockey a lot, but were you like,.

It wasn't until that specific scenario, literally I was the last guy picked, I think for AAA Blues the first year I played aaa, which is seventh grade, and I barely played.

I didn't deserve to play.

Knowing what I know now about youth hockey, I think I should have been playing, right?

But then it's fine.

I love my coach and he helped me a ton.

But that summer my mom was like, you need to go into the coach's office for the end of the year meeting because he was having them with a notebook and you need to write down everything he says to you that you need to work on and then just do what he said all summer long.

And I did it every single day, seven days a week.

Worked non Stop at it on little things for a seventh grade hockey player.

But I went from the 12th player to the second line and power play and scoring a bunch of goals.

And I was like, whoa, light bulb.

Okay.

Like, the only thing I did different is I did stuff every single day of the week to work on my hockey game.

And if there was a pool party at 12 o', clock, I would do my hockey work stuff, whatever that was back then, before the pool party.

And then I would go to the pool party at my buddy's house or whatever, right?

And I just, it just, I got so much better.

And then I got addicted to outworking people because I was just like, wow, my skill didn't really get that much better.

I was just doing all these other things that helped me become a better hockey player.

I was like, okay, bare minimum, if I outwork everybody, I'm giving myself at least a chance.

And that literally seventh to eighth grade summer changed my life.

And that's how I've been ever since.

Continue to stay at koi.

This is the greatest game on earth.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Dude, I'm so thankful to hockey.

Literally, I'm so, so grateful and thankful.

I had hockey in my life and then I had great parents who weren't the complaining type or why me?

Why not my son?

Type of thing.

And it was, you got to do better then.

Oh, you got cut from a team.

Was it your best tryout?

Be honest with us and yourself?

No.

Yeah.

Okay, well, then what do you need to do next time?

Not leave it into the coach's hands.

Be the best player on the ice and you're not going to get cut or the hardest worker.

Make stuff happen.

Don't leave it to chance.

And I tried to do that in my life post hockey, and I made it pretty damn far in hockey with nowhere near as much skill as the guys at the levels that I got to.

I obviously had skill, but not nearly as much as the guys that I was playing with and against.

It was all the mindset, the work ethic, the preparation for what I did before I even got on the ice that allowed me to be there.

And that's why I love doing what I do now because I'm like, look, all of you guys who I'm working with have more skill than I did.

You learn the stuff that allowed me to get there and you add that to your skill.

Let's go.

It's over.

Yeah.

I mean, yeah.

Some of the stuff these youth hockey players are doing today on the ice, skill wise, is disgusting.

They have More skill than a lot of players used to play.

It's crazy, dude.

It's literally crazy.

I'm like, I can't do any of the stuff you do, but if we put the puck in the corner, I'm coming out.

F1, right?

Exactly.

So you see guys in the National Hockey League who to the naked eye, like you said, may not have the most skill.

Right.

They have to have some skill to get there.

But they worked crazy.

Like you said seventh and eighth grade when you got the notebook with the coach.

Guys like Matt Martin.

Just one example.

Cut from aaa.

And Eric and I talk about on our podcast all the time about how everyone has their own path.

Undrafted major, junior walked on to Sarnia, became captain, and then he was drafted in the 5th round as a 5th round pick.

Could be by the Islanders in 08.

Dude, I played against him.

He was an animal.

If I didn't have my concussion, my really bad one be right before I started.

It was right after I signed with the Bruins.

And then I missed my whole first year pro.

So I played, but I played against lot in Providence and like he was like the player that I wanted to be.

Like, he was hard to play against.

He was a man out there.

Like, he could fight, he could score.

Power forward.

I really, really, really respected the way that that guy played the game.

And there's no, no secret why.

He's had the awesome career he has.

And it's been cool for me, as somebody who played against him to see that because like I said, I really respected the way he played.

Yeah.

And one would assume, again, you look at him to the naked eye, he doesn't look like he has the most skill.

But.

And again, Eric and I talk about this all the time on the podcast too, as hockey being a great game where everyone has their own role.

Right.

He's a fourth line grinder, enforcer, I guess if you wanted to call him always getting in the corners.

I'm assuming that he did the same things you did as a kid and growing up and to get there and just the work ethic.

So I think the message we're trying to send here to the players growing up is everyone has their own role and just keep working, keep grinding and you'll get there.

Absolutely.

And the other thing I got to say too is you see a guy like that, and I wouldn't even put him in that category, but you see perception, like, oh, he's not that skilled.

Yes, he is.

Like, you're comparing him to the most skilled players, right?

In the most Skilled league in the world.

You put them on the ice with anyone else and they're going bar down every single shot.

I played seven preseason games with Bruins and I was on a line with Sean Thornton for I think like six of them.

That guy has so much skill.

His shot is unbelievable.

But you watch him in an NHL game and people be like, oh man, that guy.

Whatever.

They're going to say negative.

But yeah, dude, get on the.

He's disgusting.

Like you're freaking crazy.

Exactly.

Yeah.

You got to have some skill to get to the NHL, right?

I mean he probably, he probably had a 20 goal season in the AHL.

I would guess that's not easy to do.

It's not easy to do.

Yeah, he's a good, He's a good player, everyone.

If you're in the NHL, you're a good player.

Yeah, yeah.

Oh, absolutely.

I mean, without question now, at least I think back then, back in the day, maybe it was a little vex.

I forget.

Did you.

Were you in the Bruins organization when Charo was there?

Yeah, yeah.

Everybody talks about his leadership and it's just like how freakish of an athlete he is.

Is it factual?

Like, yes.

Absolute animal.

He had his own bike at the training center and it was like nobody else was allowed to ride it because it was like set to his height and like it was his bike.

He might have bought it.

I don't know.

Maybe he had in his contract.

They had to buy it for him.

It was like a special bike just made for like monstrous he humans.

But yeah, awesome, awesome guy.

I mean, I got in a fight in one of the preseason games.

He was the first guy that came over to me and said, good job.

I actually broke his pull up record.

I was saying, I'm gonna try and break the record.

And so guys were talking.

So I don't.

He wasn't in our testing group, but I came down off the pull up bar and I was dying, almost blacked out.

I turned around, he was right there and he was like, awesome, man, congrats.

And I was like, oh my God, like I'm almost blacking out because that's a lot of pull ups to do and holding your breath at the end, trying to squeak out the last couple and first guy to grab me and give me a handshake.

So yeah, he was freaking awesome.

That all those guys in the Bruins organization then right before they won the cup, like, dude, they were just, they were great guys.

Yeah.

And he's another guy too.

I think he played junior B or he was cut From Junior B or something like that.

And then probably when you grow, when you're like that tall, you go through an awkward phase.

It's.

You can't not.

You grow so fast.

I've trained a lot of guys not that are that tall, but close or just have a huge like one of my guys right now, like 6 inch gross spurt over.

Over the last six months, like 6 inches.

Like you're gonna feel so awkward on the ice.

Levers change and all of that type of stuff.

Balance.

And so there's a, there's a point where your body will start to get used to it.

When you made that transition from playing AAA this level, once you hit 8th grade and you start grinding, right?

But then you get to Western Michigan, like what was the biggest realization for you?

Coming from your background when you now you're, you hit, you're at D1, you're, you're playing Western Michigan.

What was the biggest realization that you walked into there?

Well, I always had to like work really hard from the bottom than to be one of the best players.

And I go to the next level and it was kind of like ish bottom or just work my way up, work my way up.

Like stuff like that.

So I think I led Select 17 in scoring or I was like maybe second or something.

And I made Team USA to go overseas.

And then I went into my first USHL season like a year after that.

I was a 17 year old in junior in high school.

And I was like, I went from being like a skill guy at that time and like making Team USA and crushing it to like, oh my God, I'm not ready for this level at all.

Mentally, physically, emotionally not ready.

Barely played my first year in the ushl and then I had one goal, two assists.

I believe I was minus three.

And I scored my only goal on an accidental tip.

I didn't even see the puck coming.

I don't think it went off my stick in game like 29.

And I think I got hurt two games later.

I missed the rest of the season.

But that's what got me into working out and that's what changed my career and my life.

That injury, it was like, okay, like I can't skate.

Couldn't do anything.

93 Days, couldn't do anything other than lift.

I started getting into workout a little bit, but not like really, really.

And worked out every single day for 93 straight days.

And like lifting weights, I mean working out.

And came back on the ice.

Had never had more confidence in my life after not skating for 93 days.

And as a young player, you usually don't go like a week without SK skating ever.

So it was like, whoa, another eye opener.

Okay, can work harder than guys and I can work smarter.

I can use the gym.

Because everybody wasn't like, lifting weights back then.

A lot of guys were, but a lot of guys would, like, fake it and not do it.

So I was like, oh, here's another level unlocked.

Lifting weights and getting into training to be a hockey player.

Not just, like, going to the gym and doing random workout things.

Actually, let's dial in and do programs and stuff.

And then I became one of the better players in USHL over the next two years.

And then I got to Western Michigan as one of the last guys picked for my freshman class.

Same kind of thing.

But I went in there, smoked everyone in, testing, was just murdering guys in, like, our training camp there.

And I played like, the most on the team as a.

As a freshman, as a forward, because we had so many penalties and I was on our top penalty kill.

So many guys who get to these higher levels, they aren't always the best player.

They've got to go through a tough time and realize, oh, do I want this?

Okay, well, I got to put in the time, I got to put in the effort, and then that's how they start rising up.

And for me, it was kind of always, every time I'd move up, I'd have to really find a new level and new things to make myself better.

Yeah, that's exactly what I was.

The path I wanted you to go walk everybody through, because I think it's.

It's becoming better now.

I think as a society, as a hockey culture, we're coming better at realizing that there's some of the off ice, intangible things and those tangible things like working out and eating properly and sleeping and doing all these other.

Taking care of your body because it's.

That's the machine that gets you through a game.

Right.

So I think that's awesome.

That's.

That was the perfect answer.

So when you reached the NHL with the Bruins and then eventually the Panthers organization, was it as simple as, just like you said, turning it up another notch now that you're at the NHL level, or was there something else that.

That clicked that you had to do to get and progress and get better and progress at that level?

Well, I had kind of like a.

It's tough.

I had freak fluke accidents.

So I.

After I finished my junior year, I signed in the NHL at the Bruins.

They flew Me out to Providence to finish a season with their American League team.

But then the next year start your actual NHL contract and stuff.

Two way contract, entry level.

And I went out there, learned a ton, loved it, felt great with the league and stuff.

But I hit a guy the game before playoffs and I murdered him, absolutely murdered him.

But I hit him awkwardly with my wrist and I woke up the next day and I couldn't turn my doorknob and I found out I had a fracture, small fracture in my wrist, but I couldn't rotate my wrist at all.

I played the rest of the playoffs with a cast on and they played me over their first and second round picks with the cast on.

They're like, we love how you're playing.

We love that you're wearing a cast and you're playing.

That shows us who you are.

Boston is saying this.

And so I go home in that summer and I find out a month in my wrist isn't getting better.

So I go get an MRI and I wound up tearing cartilage and it's like cartilage doesn't heal easily.

So it's pretty much you got to have surgery or you can put your arm in this gunslinger and sleep on your back like this 90 degree arms like I'm Henry Rowan Gardner, funky butt loving.

And anybody knows that movie Rosenhauser.

Yeah.

And so I did that instead of the surgery.

So I sit in that thing for eight or ten weeks and.

And the first skate, the day that I got it off, the next morning I went to a skate in the morning.

I don't remember it, but we were doing some drills.

The ceiling at the rink in St. Louis would always leak like condensation because so hot here.

And so there is these massive bubbles.

I'm talking like six inch bubbles on the ice.

And I remember vaguely skating around before we started the skate and shaving off the bubbles, trying to get them off the.

To make it safe.

And I don't know, I don't remember but I guess I was going full speed down the ice and I went to stop by the boards at the end of a full speed sprint and I guess I hit one of them and I went head first into the boards and unconscious.

Lost memory, lost memory from the night before the week before.

Super, super bad post concussion syndrome.

I wound up not playing a game from that last game in AHL for 15 months.

Thought I was never going to play again.

Like it was awful.

Saw the same concussion doctors at like Bergeron saw and Crosby and I went to the doctors five days A week in Mass General, in Boston, getting like needles in my skull and my spine and like just trying to figure this thing out.

Luckily I was able to come back after months of doing nothing and living in purgatory basically and just super tough, all my dreams coming true, and then this thing happens.

But I got to train over the summer and I went into training camp and I smoked everybody.

And I got to play five NHL preseason games that year after not playing a game for 15 months.

My first game was in the NHL in Toronto.

So freaking cool.

It was just an awesome experience.

I got five games.

I think I had assist and I maybe I was like +1.

Then the next year come in.

I played all that season in the ahl.

I got another concussion, which was like my eighth concussion, where that one knocked me out.

Took a slap shot in the face and that knocked me out.

And I was doing well.

I had 15 goals in 65 games.

No power play.

So I was like, I'm pace to score 20 all even strength, which, whatever, that's pretty good for a guy who's like a power forward, not a goal scorer or like a skill guy, right?

And go to camp, crush it.

We played three games in the preseason that year.

I played in two of them.

We lost to the Panthers 3 to 2.

I scored our only two goals on Thomas Bokun.

So that was like pretty cool.

But that was my last preseason game then was against the Panthers where I scored two goals.

So in total I played seven preseason games and I had two goals, assist fight.

And against the Canadiens, I hit a guy through the glass.

The glass like popped out on this lady's face in.

In the Colosse in Quebec where I got to play the peewee tournament.

So like, that was kind of cool getting back there.

And I was like, what would it be like to play here?

And I got to play a preseason game and I got in a fight against the Canadians.

Everybody went nuts in the stands.

Unfortunately, I kept getting concussions and I got traded to the Panthers in my third year.

So I played for Rochester, their farm team.

And then I after that played like a year in the coast in the A.

And then I went over to Europe for the rest of my career.

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So like through that, all that adversity and everything, did your definition of success change?

Did you?

Yeah, it had.

It kind of had to because I had already had so many concussions and like I got the one right when I signed and then I got one in my first year healthy back.

I actually got two in my first year healthy back and then I got one in my second year, one of my third year and they were all like one was 15 months, one was 15 games.

So that's probably, I don't know, two months.

One was two months.

So I was like okay, I'm gonna go to Europe and try to make as much money as I can and play as long as I can and stay healthy.

And I was awesome.

Like, it sucks giving up the NHL dream, but, like, when I came back, I was never the same player I was before.

That bad concussion.

Like, I used to recklessly drive the net, beat guys wide, take it to the net, try and run the goalie over and have somebody else score would lay at my face in front of a puck, and I just.

I couldn't.

It was like I kind of, like, looked in the mirror and was like, okay, like, I can play the way that I've always played, but, like, I'm probably going to get knocked out and then my career is over.

Or I can play a little bit more conservative, do the best I possibly can and see how that goes, which I think I did pretty pretty well.

For that, I got to play nine more years professionally, so.

But, you know, it'll always be hard.

But that's why I do what I do now and try to help as many players as I can with all things I've learned.

I love it, and I think what you're doing for the hockey world and is remarkable, so I commend you.

I think it's awesome.

Appreciate it, bro.

So I'm going to get you all riled up now.

We're going to shift to youth hockey development.

Yeah.

And a tournament that I just attended that got me riled up.

And I know you and Toph talk about it all the time, the problems that.

That we see in youth hockey today.

So just to set the stage for the audience, I own a youth hockey company.

I started out of Long island, moved it to Delaware after I moved.

I have players from Delaware, Pennsylvania, Maryland, Virginia.

Also give lessons back up on Long island, run clinics when I go back.

And every year I run a Tier 2 spring program.

And my motto is development over banners.

Right.

I tell the parents I do not chase banners.

Will we get a banner?

Maybe.

But you know what?

If you want that elite program that's going to tote banners around and try to sell their program, this isn't the program for you.

I want to develop your kids skills.

I want to make it fun.

I want to avoid the burnout.

I want to give them life lessons to build character and help them become a better adult.

You guys will probably agree with me, right?

When you were 8, 10, maybe even 16, you don't remember what the score was or what tournament you won.

Right?

But.

But I still remember the friendships that I made and the mini sticks in the hallway and getting all the hotel people pissed off.

Right.

And all that other stuff.

And that one Coach or two coaches that just had an impact on you.

So that's what I try to instill in my players.

And this past weekend, as of the recording, right, I entered six teams from 8U to 14U in a tournament.

And I have my 10UB team, right.

Just coming from mites.

Want to get them some game experience, get them used to coming from the half ice game to the full ice game.

And outcomes.

The Hawks, basically I felt like I was the Mighty Ducks against the Hawks.

Kids with double A and AAA stickers on their helmets.

I'm like, come on, this is a 10ub team.

And right when the puck drop, I knew right away it's gonna be bad.

And it was.

And the kids started getting discouraged.

I think the final score and the craziness of it is they didn't stop.

This score might have been in the 30s.

We might have gotten three shots.

I'm not even joking.

The might games in that tournament were 46 to 3.

It's ridiculous and it's not fair to any of the kids.

And the funny thing is my coaches would ask their coaches, hey, what are you doing in a 10ub tournament?

You have double A and triple A players.

Yeah.

And their response is, we didn't pick what division we were in.

Number one.

Yes, you did.

Because when you register for a tournament, you pick what division you're in.

And number two, if you didn't, right, you can always move your team when the torrent, when the schedule comes out.

So I mean these crazy.

The craziness of youth hockey today.

And like I said, I preach development over short term wins.

So why do you think the youth hockey culture is struggling with that today where people are just looking for that instant banner rather than the long term marinating and cooking the development for the kids.

It's just been over professionalized, unfortunately.

And I don't know, a lot of people, like adult ego is a big one.

Coaches being the Team 1.

Because of me, coaches are getting paid more, which if you're a good coach, like it's a very valuable thing in a young person's life having a really good coach in sports, especially a hockey coach, and especially how much time.

So if there's a way to, to pay the good coaches, like I'm all for it.

If they're instilling life lessons and making the kids better at hockey, obviously and stuff like that.

And players are moving on and at the levels, obviously.

I'm not talking about house league, but I think over professionalization and a lot of like adult Ego have ruined what really matters, unfortunately.

And it's like the life lessons you learn from the game.

Learning how to get better at something teaches you how to learn to get better at anything.

And I think that's the most important lesson I learned in hockey.

Like, you want something, get off your butt and actually go after and work for it.

And you find that dog.

Right?

Yeah.

Like you absolutely have to.

And.

But that's what hockey taught me.

And like now it's.

It's all about winning because parents want to say that their son or daughter plays on the top three team by my hockey rankings and this and that, and it's too.

None of that matters.

Are they developing as a person?

Are they developing as a player?

Are they better at the end of the year than they were at the beginning of the year?

Those are the things that really matter.

So talking a little bit about the youth development side, what do you think is one unpopular opinion you may have about youth hockey development?

That you, you shouldn't actually care about winning in the beginning of the season.

Like, you can't say that to your team.

But as a coach, I believe that especially pay to play, which is like everything before junior hockey and even some junior hockey, but I'm not including junior hockey in this.

Everybody should play for the most part, like, pretty evenly for the most part.

You're close in games, give players who deserve it.

But like at the end of the game and more towards the end of the season, like, people are paying money to play on the team.

And so in the beginning of the year, put everybody in different situations and make them earn it right and they need to get better and all these things.

I'm not saying be soft, but everybody should get a chance in the power play to learn how to do that.

They are paying money to be on the team.

This is not like you get paid to do it type of thing.

And you're paid for your performance.

Like you're paid to develop the players.

So I think that when you focus on development, you win way more games in the long run.

In the end, consistency wins on a long enough timeline.

So if you consistently develop, that means they're consistently getting better instead of playing a 1 4.

So your team wins the game, what's that doing for their development?

So don't, like you said, don't chase banners, chase development.

And honestly, banners come from development, right?

Yeah, I think it's comical to me too, still that we do this.

I'm happy that we are moving in a better direction in terms of the human Performance side of things.

And I don't just mean the gym, I mean all the other pillars of human performance.

We're preaching that.

But we have these tryouts in, like, March, right?

At the end of the season when kids are smoked, we have tryouts.

And then you expect them to work all summer long, and then you're gonna go with what you knew back in March, right?

You're not gonna give it a fair shake come August, when in reality, I don't know, maybe we move tryouts, maybe we move to a model where everybody has to play, right?

Because you gotta.

You have no idea how to coach effectively if you don't know what you got.

So you got to throw it out there and see what you got.

The only upside, really, to the model that currently exists, as I see it, I guess, is that you get to see those kids that put the work in over the summer and those that didn't.

Right.

The one thing I see is, like, they could do team workouts and team bonding and stuff like that, but you could also do that in the season.

So I think, especially knowing what happens at the midget AAA level and how that filters downhill to every level.

Our midget teams, every year, they don't even know who's going to not make juniors and who's going to be back for an overage year and who's going to be young and make a team randomly and then go play juniors.

Why are we having tryouts earlier than before?

We have that information.

Like, how dumb is that?

It should be like, junior tryouts are here, and then three weeks later, two weeks later, midget tryouts, Triple A, Central states, double A.

Because then players are going to filter down or up based off of that, the head of the chopping block there, which is going to be like juniors.

So, like, I don't understand how that makes any sense at all.

And then it gives all the players time to get better over the off season.

And you see who.

Whatever grew into their body, went through puberty, got better.

So I think it makes no sense at all logistically and logically, why the.

It's not juniors and then a few weeks later, midget AAA and then flow down.

Yeah, I don't disagree.

Yeah, I think.

I don't disagree at all.

Stupid.

Yeah, it puts all these parents in limbo, especially like AAA and then obviously central states.

And then every level you go up, it's more and more expensive.

It's more and more dedication, which it should be.

But you're putting families in limbo and they're like, oh man.

Especially now, like, how are you going to ask somebody to.

Yeah, you might be paying $20,000 this year.

We're not really sure is it going to be 10 or 8 or is it going to be 20?

And it's, dude, it's not good for the customer, the client, the people who are coming to pay to play either.

I think that that's who we should be trying to service first and foremost to get more people into the game.

Yeah, he did a joke.

He's getting riled up.

He did it.

We haven't even brought up.

I knew it, I knew it.

Yeah, right.

So Eric brought it up too.

Well, with the tryouts in March and then all the off ice stuff or on ice stuff actually in the quote elite tournaments that little Johnny's got to go in every year, just random tournaments, not even with their team, just I see kids just joining random tournaments not going in any direction.

But Eric and I see it on the youth level, it's, it was unheard of.

I don't know if it was unheard of when you played, but we got 10 year olds pulling groins and hip problems and things like that.

10 Year olds, 10 year olds.

And that's going to lead to burnout and injury.

So with your older players too, what are some warning signs that parents can look out for if their player is headed toward burnout?

Well, I mean it should.

First, foremost there's never ever be the parent asking the player to go and do a skating lesson or go and do a skill session ever, ever.

That is for sure the way a kid is going to lead to burnout.

It should be them leading the charge and it doesn't matter if they're oh no, I want, I don't want to play for a little bit.

Okay, play another sport.

Good, good.

It's going to make you better.

Maybe that winds up being the sport that you're better at and you choose and you wouldn't know that if you never took time off.

But playing that other sport is going to help you be a better hockey player and learn more life lessons and be a more well rounded individual which is going to help you at any level of hockey and also all of life.

Being in different locker rooms and different sports, different socioeconomic backgrounds, different morals and ethics and different sports and locker rooms and things.

It's just going to give you more diverse opportunities for growth as a young person to be in those situations.

So it's like just pigeonhole and I mean, let's get all the money out of them and keep them in hockey year round.

It's just bad for development as a human being.

That stuff kind of drives me nuts.

But it should always be the player asking to go and do these things.

Now then you got to think about all these tournaments in the summer if you're looking for life experiences and that's what your family likes to go and do.

Go to different cities, visit around the city while you play a hockey tournament.

Okay.

But I don't think that's why most people are doing them anymore.

They think they're going, they need to do it, they need to do showcases, they need to get seen because these emails are getting sent out that are canned emails.

And it's like you don't need to do those things.

Development is what matters in the summer.

What's going to develop you taking care of your body, resting your body from the ice for at least a little bit, Getting to miss hockey for a little bit, That's a big one that a lot of people don't talk about.

Most players, there are a very select few that can play year round and never miss the game ever in their whole life.

It's good to get away from the rink so that when you do come back you're like, yeah, I missed this, I'm ready to go.

That's important.

It is psychologically for development because if you are intentional at practice and workouts and all these things, you're going to get better results.

But if you're doing them all the time year round for 10 years, you have to.

If you and it loses its luster and it's fun and you know that now they're giving 80%.

Well that's not getting them better at what you're sending them and thinking you're doing for them.

So it's like people need to zoom out a bit.

And now let's take a quick break to hear from our partners.

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Take care.

Yeah, and it becomes like a job for them too.

It's a kids game and it becomes a job and I guess that leads to burnout too.

Eric and I subscribe to the spring thing.

My kids play all their different sports and they barely touch the ice in the spring and summer.

My daughter does a couple tournaments with some girls.

She plays with the boys year round, so or not year round in the regular season.

So I think it's important for her to do some tournaments with the girls as well.

Like you said, just like the camaraderie that she doesn't get with the boys and just the life lessons and girl empowerment and things like that.

So I think that's important as well.

So yeah, I think I went.

I think I went to two hockey camps a summer as a kid.

One one in the middle and one towards the end probably or something like that.

And there were also experiences that were great for me as a kid.

An all day camp where you're not with your mom and dad and you got to kind of learn some life skills and all that stuff.

And that's awesome.

But I see some people who do hockey camps the entire summer.

I don't know if your goal is like, this is daycare.

I'd rather him be here than a day.

Okay, I totally understand that.

But a lot of people think this is the way to get them to.

And it's.

No, that's not.

So if it's daycare and that's cool for you and he's having a great time, all right, fine.

But if you're like thinking this is what he needs to do to be getting to the goals.

No, that's not it.

I mean the part you mentioned about the missing it thing I just had this realization.

So my older son, Callan, last spring, it was the last pick of a lay lacrosse team that he played on in Maryland.

But the coach was like, hey, I want him, because I know he'll work, and I want to see where he's at at the end of the year.

And he did.

He worked.

And he just, like, you went from not playing to playing kind of all over.

But then hockey season took over, and then lacrosse stick got put away.

So practice in the spring, he's, I don't want to do this.

I don't want to go.

And then first game, he just lays somebody out.

He's, I love this.

I'm back.

It's back.

So it's cool to see.

It's cool to see.

To have that realization right, where it's like, oh, this.

I missed this.

I mean, I could smoke people.

I love it when somebody gives them a new tool or teaches them something or says, pay attention to this detail.

You don't need to say it to them 50 times.

You need to say it to them one time, show them at one time.

And because they care so much about actually getting better, they're better immediately from it versus the players who do care, but not enough to.

To be real with themselves that every detail matters.

For most guys, like, it's.

It's a mindset, really.

Obviously, we've got some genetics and some natural skill.

You have to be in the much higher end to be able to get to Division 1, any level of pro, and obviously the NHL, KHL, SHL, those leagues.

But the guys who, like, absolutely love the game, so they work at their craft all the time, and they pay attention to details and learn quicker.

Those are probably the biggest differences.

I love it.

Yeah, I think.

And it's something I preach to my kids all the time.

I'm like, dude, it's the little.

You take care of the little things.

That's what, like, I tried to explain to them the other day.

I'm like, you want to go ride your bike four miles away or 10 years old?

Which, like, no, but you want me to trust you that you're going to be safe and that you're not going to get smoked by a car because you're an idiot, but you can't even pick up your socks, bro.

Like, yeah, just listen to how crazy that sounds.

And they're like, right off.

And he was like, you know what?

You're right.

I'm like, yeah, that's.

Yeah.

Because that's a really good analogy.

And I've Found that metaphors and analogies with young people, it really helps them when I'm trying to teach and coach them.

Young people are much more visual learners now with how everybody uses their phones and tablets and screens and yada yada.

So, like, they need to see it or they.

Or like an analogy or metaphor they can picture in their head, I think really helps them.

So, like, that's genius.

I love that.

And for me, as a coach, I don't know, I don't think of myself as just a strength coach.

Like, I try to be there for a lot of different things with them, but my guys in the gym.

But, like, for me, it's like, how can I get them to understand that quicker?

The quicker I can get them to buy into them, buying into themselves.

That's when the magic happens.

And you start to see them, like, start to hit their potential no matter what age.

And the kids who do it sooner go further because they've had a longer time of going all in on themselves and the wisdom and.

Because then they start paying attention, like, reflecting, why was this a good game?

What was my routine?

How did I feel?

What have I been eating?

They start to, like, really try to find every detail they can to get better.

And this is at a little bit older of an age, but you can just extrapolate that a little bit downwards to the younger ages and what that would mean.

Age accordingly.

Yeah, I think you're just seeing.

We're seeing folks play for so long right now because of those things that you talked about.

I mean, Charles.

Yeah.

Forever.

Which at his frame is ignore.

It's huge to play that long.

Yeah, you got Marsha and all.

Poor guy.

But, man, like, to play that game at that level that long, you got to be doing, like.

You got to be all in all the time.

That.

Yeah, yeah.

I mean.

And also some of those guys are just freaks, dude.

They're just, like I said, genetics.

Their genetics are just better.

Whatever it is, they recover better.

They.

I think that's a big one.

Some guys just recover better than others.

And yeah, you can train and do all these things, but just something about their body, like, it's.

They're just animals, dude.

They can go hard every single night in all aspects of their life, and it's just like, they're good to go.

Have you.

We're gonna go way off topic for a sec, Chuck.

I'm sorry.

Have you seen that Netflix document, Vex, about Breakpoint?

I think it Was about Marty Fish, where he went from.

Hey, he's pretty good US tennis player.

And it's, it's.

They're interviewing him and he's in this tennis academy down in Florida and he's pretty good.

He bounced around on top hundred in the world and then he beat somebody or something.

I forget what it was.

But like he, he was like, you know what?

I'm all in.

And went from being like, I'm at a party like Johnny Manziel and go out and then just, I'm just naturally gifted, so I'm sleeping in a hyperbaric chamber at my house.

He went 180 and he became like number two or number three in the world, I think.

But then it's fantastic because then it goes into, yeah, he did all those things.

Right.

Except take care of his mental health.

And that's where his game crumbled.

Right.

Because he did.

Yeah, he didn't take care of his brain.

Yeah, it's fantastic.

So it just, it made me think of that.

Yeah, it's cool.

And what's cool for me too is like now I work with all the higher end players.

For the most part, my coaches work with a little bit lower levels, but it's, it doesn't matter what that means.

They could be a house league player that just learned, oh, like working out is fun.

And like, I, I used to hate this dude.

That's a huge win for a young person.

That's so cool.

It could be an A players.

You know what?

I do want to try and make the double A team.

So I'm gonna, I'm gonna go after this.

And then they make the double A team.

And that's amazing.

Oh.

Now later in life when they want to make more money, I think back to their hockey career.

Like, how did I go to the double 18?

I put in the work.

I'm going to do that now.

These are lessons that are so freaking important.

I just know that because I know I wouldn't have any levels of success or have worked with anywhere near the amount of players that I have or had the impact in St. Louis that I've been able to have for a long time if I didn't learn these things in the game of hockey.

It's what I love about your model and I think why it's going to be so successful, why it is successful, why it's going to be so successful with the training is because you're not just creating those coaches, you're creating the culture that it goes with.

Right.

So like you're perpetuating this culture throughout your organization.

Much like my kids had the abit.

I trained Mike Boyle when I was a kid, Right.

And then my kids trained with him this past spring, which was cool, like a come full circle moment.

But the standard has been the same, and that's.

There's 30 years between it and the standard was the same.

So that's why those things are successful.

And I think that's awesome.

Yeah, dude, that's really cool.

He's the best, dude.

He's the absolute best.

He's unfiltered.

I love it.

Yeah, he's a man, dude.

He's.

He's forgotten more than most people know.

Speaking of your training model, so while you're playing professionally overseas, you.

As a hobby, I think you started RIPT hockey, which is now give more training.

So what inspired you to start that?

Was it the notebook conversation with your mom and going in with the coach and just.

Just knowing your work ethic that got you to a certain level?

Is that what inspired you to do it, or was it something else?

Well, I mean, my.

My goal is to make millions of dollars playing in the NHL.

And after that third year pro healthy, I, like, I. I had that concussion where I got elbowed in the back of the head, and just, like, crappy injury.

I was out for a while without, and I was like, okay, I'm gonna go play in Europe, but if I get another concussion, I'm probably done.

So I'm gonna to.

I'm gonna start preparing for life after hockey, and I'm gonna start training guys, because I had already had pro guys training with me for years and college guys that would pay me to work out with me.

So I was kind of training them, and I was training them, but, like, they were paying to, like, just work out with me, and, like, they would do what I was doing, programming for myself.

And so then I was.

After I got that concussion the third.

My third year healthy, I was, okay, I'm gonna start a training company and start helping these kids with all things that I've learned and I Of not just hockey, talking to them about the mental side of the game and how important details are and how you can gain an edge by reading books and recovery and nutrition and sleep and coordination and mobility.

It's not like, just go run and jump and lift weights.

There's so much you can do away from that hour, hour and a half that you get to practice every day to actually get better.

And so I love teaching all these kids at.

Especially in St. Louis, where I grew up and we kind of got the short end of the stick and St. Louis got a lot better over the years, so it was cool to give back too.

And so I started my company.

The first year I only had two clients.

Then I think the second year I had three.

Joseph Wall was one of them, who's still my client.

Toronto made police goalie and then it went to 9 and then 13 and then 33 and then over a hundred.

And then going into my 10th year pro, I knew I was going to retire because I was doing really well with my training company and.

But because of all the concussions I had, I was okay.

Now that I'm doing well financially and both of these, I can let one of hockey go and focus on what's going to be the rest of my life.

I'm going to have to stop playing hockey sooner or later.

My business is cranking right now.

People are talking like, now's probably a great time to stop, even though I was still making good money in Europe.

And so I decided to go into full time and my goal is not, like I said, like most, most, at least, especially when I was younger, most strength coaches, they just, it was just about the gym.

There's no dude.

I got to the NHL preseason and like black acing and playoffs and playing in the AHL and captain of a D1 school, not because of my skill.

So I can teach you how to get way better because of how we're going to train and it will actually translate to on ice performance.

But also I can teach you all of the mental stuff that I learned from the good times in my career, the bad times in my career.

What worked, what didn't work.

When I look back, ooh, wish I would have done this differently.

Ooh, this didn't matter at all.

I thought this mattered.

I put so much stress and anxiety on myself thinking about these things, they didn't matter at all.

So I could tell the players coming up, hey, dude, you do not need to worry about that, dude, trust me and tell them about my experience.

And then again, that helped them buy into themselves from knowing, hey, somebody who is just at that level knows, telling me, look, this does not matter.

All that matters is these things.

So let's focus on these.

So that's been kind of how I try to run it.

What has been, oh, you've coached countless athletes at this point, whether it be for one time or just like Joseph Wall forever.

Is there a moment it sticks in your brain, is the most rewarding or I mean, I'M sure with.

With how many you've done, there's probably one that gets replaced.

There's probably too many to count.

But is there one that you like talking about that really kind of drives home and underscores why you do this?

It's just somebody who goes through a hard time and then gets something that they want.

I mean, it's all of them, man.

Honestly, it's hard to train at my gym because of how all these little details that I'm constantly like, hey, every detail matters.

And guys come in and it doesn't matter where else they've trained.

And they're like, their heads spin training.

And I'm okay with that because I want them to know we focus on all these things.

We don't want to leave anything to chance.

We're going to focus on every detail in every exercise that we can.

Let's control the controllables because that's also a metaphor for the game and for life.

So hearing that all the time matters.

So anybody who trains with me that gets any cookie that they wanted that makes a team goes from the weakest guy to the badass in the gym.

Now, whatever.

The guy who made a level, who five years ago, he definitely would not have made, but he put in all this work and intention and attention detail and he got himself there.

And there's a lot of those, dude.

There's a lot of those.

I have a lot of captains that come out of my gym in juniors, in college and pro.

And for me, that's one of the coolest things.

Maybe that's one of the coolest things.

How many guys are leaders on their team that come out of my gym?

And I know a big part of that is because of the culture that they have created with what I've created with them and how we do things in the gym.

So maybe that's over.

I love that.

That's such a great answer.

I mean, the leadership thing is something near and dear to my heart, but, man, I love that.

Yeah.

I mean, yeah, because that's going to take them more places.

I mean, hockey is going to take them as far as it can.

Right?

But that leadership stuff, that's going to take them to when they die, right?

I mean, today my pros were in and I have a guy who just signed in the NHL to Dallas Stars.

He's just a monster 6 5, just a fricking unit.

And I always do this to my older guys.

Actually, any guy who's in a level above whoever's in the gym gym, I'LL always grab guys and ask them to come and speak to the boys.

And I do it anytime I can.

And I grab all different guys because I also, I'm doing multiple reasons.

And I told the pro guy this Jack, I was like, hey, the reason I did that is because they can learn from you doing that.

And you can learn from having to do this speech in front of these guys that I asked you to do 30 seconds before.

I just put you in front of a group of 20 kids who are teenagers of 20 year old.

So that's, you know, he's only probably 24, so that's like a little bit intimidating and everybody's winning and the learning curve there.

But it's just really cool to, to have him be like, yep, would love to.

And then after he gave the speech, I had my assistant coach run the boys through a warmup and I was talking to him about it and he's, how do you think I did?

And we kind of went over it and, and he was like, oh, you know, like I've been watching speeches and I should have asked a question first and this is why.

And so he kind of broke down and he was like, yeah, dude, I was in this meeting the other day with these like super big dogs.

And like, I wasn't nervous at all because I've been doing stuff like this.

It helps.

And I'm like, dude, that's why I just made you do it.

I know, trust me, I know I can speak to anybody anytime in front of any amount of people.

And I know that that is an extremely valuable skill that is fleeting in our society with the use of technology.

So if you have that skill, it is valuable and it's valuable in the locker room.

I love that.

So we got some closing questions for you.

One, this is a loaded question.

This can go on for an hour.

But what's one hockey myth you wish people would stop believing?

One hockey myth.

Oh, man.

Dude, I don't know if your kid is the best at 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, it doesn't matter.

It doesn't matter.

So you can't think that you're sweet and that treat people like garbage, which I don't know why.

It happens sometimes.

And also, what does that mean?

Putting them on the ice seven days a week, year round might make the best 12 year old.

But if you're doing that and they want to do that, their goals are probably a lot bigger than the best 12 year old.

Long term athletic development matters and you should be focusing on that because of Burnout and overusing the hips and the developmental things that they'll learn from being in other sports like we've already talked about.

So don't race to be the best 12 year old old BE.

Race to develop as much as you can before you get to leagues where you can be cut at any time.

Juniors and above, I love that.

All right, next one.

I'm throwing a random one in here just because given the times that's going on.

What's your pick here?

Are the Canadians winning at all with your boy Annette there or I mean, Western.

Hey, if I don't go with him, I'm a terrible coach, terrible human.

I gotta go with Dobie, dude.

His background, I read up a little bit more on as he's been playing lights out.

And that dude's just a dog.

He's putting the work in and it's awesome.

It's so like when they were cheering for him the other night and just that realization that he probably had at that moment was like so cool for him, so full for him to see.

He's.

And he's a very confident guy, but he's very humble.

He's.

He's kind of stoic.

He's Eastern European.

He's very dry sense of humor, but emotional in a good way.

In a good way.

And so to see that for him, it was emotional for me, it was very cool for me just knowing how hard he's worked.

And I left home at 15 and a half, almost 16 and.

But I went six hours away to Chicago.

He went across the world without any family.

I mean, I take some balls.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I'm glad he's doing well.

It's awesome.

Yeah.

And his journey too.

Too.

Yeah, his journey too.

Right.

Eric said, I think he was a fifth round pick.

Right.

I mean, he played 18U.

AAA.

Yeah.

Everybody now, right now people are like, oh, if you play 18UAAA, your career's over.

Well start playing beer leagues second year pro.

And he's crushing in the NHL.

Weird.

Or third year.

Yeah.

Starting game one of the Eastern Conference finals.

Yeah,.

Yeah, yeah.

I know we covered a lot, but is there anything else that or anything we missed in this podcast so far that you wanted to discuss that we didn't bring up out.

I would say be where your feet are, whether you're a parrot or you're a player or you're a coach.

Like, it's.

Be where your feet are.

It's so easy.

And what I've learned from my career and looking back on it, what mattered, what didn't matter.

Helping so many players with their careers and advice when times when they're down and development and stuff like that.

Be where your feet are and give everything you have to where you're at right now.

Because if you're constantly thinking about the past and looking back and what if and why didn't I make this or I should have or all that, you're not giving a hundred percent effort, intention, everything into where you are, which is going to hurt your future, which is where you're trying to go.

So by doing, looking back and thinking about that and wasting energy, you're giving yourself anxiety for something you cannot change, whether it was a second ago, a week ago, a year ago, whatever, you cannot change it.

No matter or good or bad, it was.

So don't focus on where your feet are, but also don't worry about who's in the stands.

Where am I going to play next year?

What's going to happen?

What if, what if, what if?

Because if you live in the future constantly you're doing the same thing.

You're not putting 100% intention and effort into where you are right now, getting the most out of the experience.

Because all you're doing is about worrying about something that has not happened yet, when you could actually change it.

So the thing that you want to have happen happens by giving all of your intention and effort into where your feet are right now.

And it will be way more enjoyable.

Because worrying about the future that hasn't come yet is like sitting in a rocking chair.

It gives you something to do, but you're not going anywhere and you're just wasting energy.

So put that energy into today where you are and enjoy wherever you are.

Yeah, I mean, I try to echo that too, especially coaching, like the 10, 11 year olds, when they sail one on, you know, off the creek, they miss the breakaway or they come back to the bench just in tears or just slamming the stick.

I'm like, hey man, that's cool.

I appreciate how emotional you are and you care, right?

But all you're doing right now is having a little pity party and you're gonna ruin the next three shifts and you're gonna ruin it for the guys at the end of the bench too.

Is that what you want?

And like a light bulb goes off, they're like, well, no, that's not what I want.

I'm like, yeah, let's fix that and let's go out and have some more fun.

Yeah, dude, love that.

That's awesome.

Hell yeah.

Like, I'm like, I'm not gonna scream at you.

You.

Yeah, yeah.

What's that gonna do, man?

Like, you're not gonna want to play.

Yeah, I love that Vex.

Like, you have a lot going on right now.

A lot of irons in the fire, and they're all hot, man.

They're all burning.

So, like, for the folks out there that want to get in touch with you for any myriad of the things, what's the best place for them to go to be able to reach out to you?

And for anything.

Instagram, it's just my name, Jeff Lavacchio.

Or.

Or my Give more training Instagram, that's another one we have.

Or if you go to gmbm.com you scroll down to the bottom, there's an email list.

You can get on my email list.

You know, reply to my emails, ask anything, send me a DM on Instagram.

Like, it's me answering.

I don't pay people to answer my Instagram.

It's actually me.

So however I can help reach out, all I do is try and help people in the hockey world.

I can vouch for that because I slid into Jeff's.

Not because of his good looks, but, I mean, it certainly weighed on my decision, and that's how I got my wife, bro.

She slid into the DMs, dog.

But no, I. Yeah, that's awesome.

I think you really are a man true to your word with stuff like that, so I appreciate it.

And, yeah, buddy, thanks for repping the jacket, baby.

Looks good.

This thing is warm, too.

I like it.

Like, nice.

I've been getting.

I got a lot of compliments on it, and I sent you that picture that one time.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Is this you like?

Oh, I got sniped.

One last question.

We ask everybody.

What is your definition of domestic development?

And it can be in one arena.

It can be all of the above.

Yeah.

Jeff's definition of development.

Better today than it was yesterday.

Love it.

That's it.

That's all 1% better, man.

Simple.

Move the needle.

Consistency wins.

Move the needle.

Yep.

Move the needle.

This was awesome.

I'm glad we were able to get it done.

We could have been.

I know I could have talked for.

A couple more hours.

I just.

I love this stuff.

Yeah, dude.

I appreciate you guys.

That was fun.

I appreciate you sharing all your wisdom.

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