This Is a Really Special Time for Women’s Hockey: New York Sirens Head Coach Greg Fargo

This is sharpening youg edge with chuck and eric.

In this episode, we'll be talking with Greg Fargo.

He is one of the most respected leaders in women's hockey, bringing nearly two decades of coaching and player development experience at the collegiate, international and professional levels.

Hello and welcome to another episode of Sharpening youg Edge, presented by CV3 Hockey Development.

I'm Chuck Verdolino, along with my co host Eric Molanson.

And today we welcome to the show head coach of the PWHL's New York sirens, Greg Fargo.

Greg, welcome to the show.

Hey, thanks a lot for having me, Chuck.

I appreciate the opportunity to speak today.

Thanks a lot.

Yeah, Coach, thanks for coming on.

I know you're a busy guy with a little bit of a break with the Olympics going on right now.

That was a pretty awesome win by USA earlier, I'd say.

Yeah, it was quite a performance by Team USA there.

Yeah, it's an interesting time, right.

We're missing a few players.

We had a few days off right after the PWHL hit a halt and.

But we were back at it.

Now we're practicing and getting ready for the second half of the year with those that are with us here in New Jersey.

So good time of year to rest, recover, get geared up for the second half.

But yeah, exciting time for women's hockey, for all of hockey right now.

We watch in the Olympics and fallen along.

Oh, absolutely.

I think hockey's grown considerably just in the past couple of years.

It's amazing.

So take us back to the beginning for you.

When you were a kid.

How did you fall in love with hockey?

And then maybe talk to us a little bit about making that pivot to coaching.

I grew up in Kingston, Ontario.

That's home for me.

And moved around, moved to Cornwall as a young kid.

But I think, like, for me, my first memories of hockey are playing or at least getting started skating on an outdoor rink on Wolfe Island, Ontario, which is where my earliest years were.

I remember getting out on the.

On Lake Ontario or on a pond with my dad at the time.

And really my.

The beginnings were uncertain of where hockey would lead me.

I don't know that there was a whole lot of interest in it right away.

It certainly didn't come easy as a young kid.

But I think through my dad being an athlete, someone that I looked up to so much, he was one that got me started in the sport and encouraged me to kind of stick with it.

And until probably I got to a point where I met some great friends.

I know whether it was Family or close friends that you went to school with, and you're doing the same things.

There's just a joy going to the rink and being around great people and you just do that over and over again.

And I think ultimately you get good at something that you do well or you get better at it, and that's something that you love.

And so that love for being around friends and playing a game, it slowly grew over time.

And I was really fortunate to grow up in an environment in a town in which hockey was a big part of what we did, and learned a lot of lessons throughout my life.

Upbringing, youth hockey, and then into junior hockey, into college.

And just the game has given me and my family so much over time.

And I think really it was the coaching part of my journey.

Didn't really ever occur to me that that could be a path until I got to college.

And you get so close to your college coaches when you're in it because you're with them every day.

And for me, like, I got to see that could be a career path and like two people that you look up to so much and you get to spend so much time with them and they're a big part of your growth as a person.

And for me, I thought I wanted to be a teacher, didn't find a real passionate pathway in that.

But the ability to be able to combine two things that I love to do, both teach and the game of hockey, it was a no brainer for me.

And so with some help of my college coaches, I was able to get my foot in the door and get my feet wet with it.

Ultimately, it became something that I absolutely love to do and I'm grateful for and just enjoy every single day.

Even still today, 20 years later.

That's a great story, coach.

I feel like probably not the same experience, but similar.

Growing up in Boston, we got to skate outdoors too, and it was part of the culture and everybody did it and you had those lifelong friendships at the rink.

And I wish that was something that every youth hockey player could experience growing up.

It's just not feasible.

Right?

Yeah.

That's a tremendous journey.

And I know for me personally, Chuck, I'm sure I don't know if you're the same, but I love playing hockey, but I get significantly more out of coaching and I can coach near the level you have, but just being able to coach and mentor some of these young men and women is much more meaningful to me.

Absolutely.

That's the joy of it, right?

Getting an opportunity to see the players that you Work with, see them find their passion and continue to grow.

That's.

That's the best part of it.

Absolutely.

You went on to NCAA to play for Elmira.

You were a goaltender, set some records there for saves and minutes played.

Now we're seeing some head coaches, goaltenders.

Patrick Waugh.

I'm partial Islanders fan.

Patrick Waugh now behind the bench.

Do you think being a goalie helped shape the way you see the game from behind the bench today?

Maybe seeing it from the back up, seeing the plays, form and things like that in the systems?

Yeah, it's an interesting question, one that I get a lot.

Like, there does seem to be a lot of former goalies that are in the coaching ranks, oddly enough.

And I didn't really think a whole lot about it.

And maybe you're right.

Like, maybe it is something about the perspective of being able to see the game unfold right in front of your eyes.

I think that must have something to do with it.

But I think as a goalie too, you're that last line of defense out there and so much is made.

Like, if you make a mistake, everybody in the rink knows it.

And I just think that being a goalie, it.

The game teaches you a lot.

And I think you've got to be really habit focused.

You've got to be very process oriented and keep that calm demeanor.

I think the other thing is, like, when you.

When mistakes do happen and pucks end up behind you, you got to find a way to quickly move on from it and push mistakes aside and move on to the next play.

And I think in a lot of ways, that's what coaching is.

You have empathy for players as mistakes happen in the game.

This is an imperfect game that we all play love so much.

And so you have some empathy for players that go through the same thing, some of those pressure moments that you feel as a competitor.

So I feel really fortunate to have been a goalie, to kind of be able to lean on some of my playing experiences in the position.

I think every day that goes by and with my coaching hat on it, there's experiences that I'm drawing from all the time that, that lead me back to my playing days.

That's pretty impressive.

And I know you eventually found your way back at Elmira as a head coach and pretty quickly found some success.

What were some lessons learned looking back on that quick success as soon as you took over that you took with you throughout your coaching career from that point on?

Yeah, I'm really grateful for my time at Elmira when I was able to get back there and take over as the head coach of the women's program.

At first, I leaned a lot in that process of deciding which road to go down or which way to turn on.

My college coach, he had, Aaron Stahl, had a big influence on that decision to take over the women's program there at Elmira at the time and to be able to go back there, be the leader of a program.

And I was only 24 years old and I had had some really good experiences at Canisius College as an assistant coach my first couple years coaching.

But to and to be the head coach of a program at such a young age, it was really a blessing.

I was kind.

It was baptism by fire in a lot of ways.

You got to go in and I certainly made a fair share of mistakes, I'm sure in those early years as a young coach.

But I think what quickly became apparent to me is just how important setting standards are, how important the culture piece of building a team is and not being afraid to make decisions as a head coach, I think as someone who is a classic overthinker, at some point as a leader, you've got to make decisions and sometimes even you don't know what the best way to go is, but you learn how to trust your instincts and to trust your gut and your experiences.

And even though there were a lot of mistakes made, I think the one thing is I've learned a lot from them and learned a lot from the successes as well.

And it was just such great experience as a young age that I often still reflect back on today.

Yeah, you often hear the stories from anyone that's gotten anywhere, whether it's sports or careers that learning experience, no mistakes.

It's just learning to grow and building from there.

So it's good to see you talk about that.

At what point did you realize that this is just not just going to be a little gig here, it's.

It's going to be a big step and not just the next step, but a long term calling for you.

That's a great question.

It's kind of tough to like pinpoint one moment.

I think when I reflect back on my coaching journey to this point, with every stop and every step along the way and every season that goes by, as we just talked about, I think you reflect upon and you can take something from good, bad, win, loss, there's really so much to learn from.

And I think in the early years of me coaching as a younger coach, you get so caught up and so hung up on the outcomes of games and the wins and the losses.

And I think when it really started to be a joy to coach was when the relationships and falling in love with the process of getting better all the time, when that superseded the wins and losses.

That's when the development moments, when seeing others succeed, when seeing a team come together, when those things started to become the drivers of why I was doing what I was doing, when those superseded the wins and losses.

I think for me, this became something that I felt like I could do forever.

I didn't get to that point by my.

On my own.

I've had a lot of great people to kind of to help me get there.

And certainly you strive to win in everything that you do, but as we talked about, there's so much to learn from the ups and downs that come in any coaching career.

And I think as long as you can continue to grow and learn and fall in love with it even more, you're going to.

You're going to enjoy every day.

And for me, that's kind of been the case in my career now.

So did that recognition for you personally mean anything significant?

Did it change anything professionally?

That was an exciting time in my career.

I think at that time, as you said, like, Colgate really wasn't on the map in terms of being a national contender in any way.

Leading up to that.

I think four or five years prior, we had probably one of the worst seasons in Colgate's history ever.

And then four years later, to be playing in the national championship game is something that was really special.

And I think it all came from whether the Coach of the Year award or getting to the national final, to me, it was.

Those were outcomes that were built upon having really great people in our program at the time.

I think when I first got to Colgate, that became the focus was trying to establish standards and habits and knowing that we were aiming to win.

But that winning with great people in our program was something that we put at the forefront of what we were trying to do every day.

So you go about your business and you just try to.

You try to make the right decisions along the way.

You try and bring in good people to your program.

But for it to kind of culminate in that national championship game with that group in particular was a really special time in the history of the program.

And one that won't soon be forgotten.

That's fantastic.

That sounds like quite the group and quite the shared experience amongst you guys.

It was incredible.

It still gives me the chills thinking about it today, switching a little bit.

Over to your coaching philosophy and player development.

So people who play or coach, they often credit a lot of the time someone that's motivated them or given them guidance.

And you said it earlier that you couldn't have done this alone.

Is there anyone in particular or any group of people that really molded you as a coach?

Yeah, certainly.

The truth is it's a really.

It's an extensive list of people.

It's hard to point to one person.

I think the people that probably have influenced me the most in my career are my parents.

And the family you grow up in, and the people that you're constantly surrounded with are the most formative years of your life.

As I said, my dad was the one that drew me to sport.

And I think in a lot of ways you try to.

I was trying to be just like him and still to this day try to in some ways be just like the people you look up to the most.

So.

But beyond that, it's really hard to pinpoint one, whether it's my junior coaches, my college coaches, Dave Smith, who gave me my first job as a coach, all had really.

They were really impactful in my coaching career.

But the one thing for me that I. I think that I do in and try to do is to continue to learn from everyone.

And whether it's coaches we play with or against or people that you look up to, you're always trying to squeeze a little bit more out of conversations with other coaches, with other leaders in sport, other business owners, people that are leading the way in different ways.

I think the one thing that served me really well is just to continue to have a curious mind and to find ways to get better all the time.

As I reflect upon the different stops along the way, I think that's the one thing that I can keep pointing back to as to why there's been continuous growth, is that we're always trying to be reflective on what's working well, that we want to continue to do, maybe what's not going well that we need to stop doing, and also like what we haven't done yet, that maybe is an idea from somewhere else that we need to start doing.

So I think just being reflective on what we're doing, how we're doing it, and continuously being curious on how we can make it better, I found a lot of a lot of influence and a lot of inspiration from a lot of different sources, including many coaches along the journey.

That's pretty awesome.

And I know that at this point in your coaching career you probably have some scouts that are looking at players.

You've already talked to us a little bit about how you attack that coach to coach mentorship, where you always be curious.

And I hope you take this as a term of endearment because I truly mean it.

And now I fully understand after hearing that why you've been so, so successful that you have an air of Ted Lass about your coaching style.

And I think that's awesome and it's a testament to your continued success moving along.

But as you're looking at players, because I'm sure you double check some of the scouts math and you're just curious as well, what are some of the skills that you first are looking for in that player?

Yeah, that's a great question.

I think I would say that too is probably something that's evolved over, over time, like a lot of things.

But I think at this level, at the PWHL level that we're at, and even in college, I think one thing that I'll say even off the top is like we really want to be, we want to be highly selective.

Obviously there's a lot of great players out there to choose from, whether it's to draft or recruit or to add to your team.

But I think you as a coach, oftentimes you can get into this trap where you're just acquiring talent.

Like you see something special and you want to add it to your team.

And while, while that can serve some well, I think really having a strong understanding of the type of identity and the type of team that you're trying to build as a whole and then moving down the ladder from there and saying, okay, what, who are the, what are the skills that, that are going to be really impactful?

Who are the people that are going to fit the identity of how we want to play as a team?

That's something I think that I've learned over time.

Even more important because especially like at the college level, there's a lot of great players out there.

But who are the ones that are going to impact your program on day one?

That can come in, they can be themselves, they can play to their identity and feel like they belong there.

I think for players and coaches, when you have that, that connection where the player fits the style of play and the player feels like they can be authentically themselves in that environment, that's when you can get the most out of people as a coach.

And so that's something that I think we've always put a lot of time and effort into is first and foremost, like what is the type of team that we're trying to build and then bringing in the right people for that.

For me specifically, I think there's always going to be a certain level of skill that you need to have, whether it's skating or puck skills or ability to shoot or think or make plays.

But combining that with a competitive mindset, like we talk about it and I've talked about it, but just competitive skill.

People that both have a desire to win battles, a desire to be first, but then have the ability to make plays and to do something with the puck when they have it.

And I think that combination is really hard to play against.

When you can add it to your team, I think it's special.

But the other thing I would say not so much a skill standpoint but something that I just think is important to growth is a player's mindset.

And that's something that you don't realize fully until you get to know them or you've done your homework on them enough.

But I'm a big believer that like I want to work with people that are still hungry to get better all the time.

Like part of my our job as coaches is to find out and to push players to levels that they're uncomfortable getting to.

And I don't know about you guys, but when I come to work every day, I want to be surrounded by people that want to continue to find ways to get better.

Whether that's an equipment manager who can make something in the room a little bit better than it was yesterday or a player that wants to continue to work on small minute parts of their game that are going to help the team.

To me, creating that kind of environment where everybody can elevate is something that gets me excited to get out of bed every day.

And so I try to surround myself with those types of people.

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Yeah, that's a common theme that seems to come up on our show over and over again is like this aggregation of marginal gains, the 1% better every day theory and just trying to leave a place better than you found it.

Those are all common things that we talk about that seem common amongst high level professionals like yourself.

So it's reassuring for Chuck and I to continue to beat that drum.

But I think your mention of some teams are having a tendency maybe as a young coach to go after that shiny object.

McDavid the whatever regardless of how he or she would fit your system.

I think that's a perfect segue into Chuck's question as we as he looks into like the youth hockey part of this segment.

But I think because I think at the tier one younger levels you see that quite often as I'm just going to grab this shiny object because my team has the ability to.

Yeah.

And the goal of this podcast is to we have audience members from youth parents to youth players, college players, pro players listening on and coaches.

So we try to hit everything on each episode.

So a little backstory for the audience and and Eric too, Coach and I have been talking a little bit leading up to the interview and from a previous conversation we talked about my boy girl twins playing for the little Flyers boys program and his daughter is the same age and coincidentally he wrote me this past weekend and said hey, knowing we live down in the Pennsylvania area, hey, I'm going to be down at Ice Line in Westchester.

And he told me what time his team was playing and coincidentally my my twins were playing right after him on the same sheet.

So I got to see coach in another element behind the bench coaching 10 new girls and with his sirens jacket on and his clipboard and so my question I guess is you coach 10 new girls, you've had the college experience in the D3 and the D1 level and now you're coaching the pros.

So how do you tailor development differently or is there a different way to tailor development for youth college and or pro?

Yeah, that's a great question, Chuck.

I and I appreciate it.

I think first of all like off the top for me to be have the opportunity to coach my my daughter's 10U team along with, with our other head coach.

Like, such a joy.

It's.

That's really some of the best parts of my week.

Going to the rink and having an opportunity to skate with some players that are really, I think in a lot of ways their first filter coming to the rink is like they're having fun.

Like, it truly brings me back to what we were talking about earlier, like my early days as a young hockey player.

I can see it in their interactions with each other.

Regardless of how the games go.

We could get smoked and lose a game and two minutes later they're on to the next thing.

It's really about the time with their friends and competing together and having fun.

So that's a great time for me and hopefully for those that I get to coach.

But as far as development, I really don't think I look at it all that differently.

I think when it comes to coach in the 10 years, my time, effort and focus mainly goes to helping our players take another step in terms of what skills can they add to their toolbox.

I think, you know, what we're preaching with the Colonials and on our team is really a lot of the foundational skills that are going to help unlock other skills as our players get older.

Things like skating and edge work and balance and agility and touch on, on the puck.

When it comes to passing and being able to get your head up and read space and find somebody who's open and make the next play.

And like, to me, if our players can get better in those areas this year and they love coming to the rink every day and they want to keep playing next year, then to me as a coach, I've done my job and I'm ready to pass them off to, to the next coach or, or to have them come back the next year and then find the next level for them to unlock in their game, that's awesome.

I hope.

Is it, is it hard to make that transition at times from coaching the pros to then coaching 10, 11 year olds?

No.

Or does it take you down a little bit?

Yeah.

No, it doesn't.

I think it's in a weird way.

Like it.

I find so much joy in it.

Even when they can't execute something that I'm asking them to do, it challenges you.

I think as a, I think about it like more internally.

Like it challenges me.

Like, do I want to keep watching them struggle through this?

Do I need to change what I'm asking them to do?

Do I need to do they understand what I'm doing and maybe and if not, like, how can I explain it better?

I think in a weird way, like, coaching 10 use has made me a better coach at the pro level, because I really have to think about how I'm going to explain something in a way that's so clear and simple that they can understand it in a way that makes sense to them.

And I think that's really the essence of coaching in a lot of ways, is take something that may seem really complicated, a system, a tactic, a concept, and make it so easily understandable for everybody to be able to execute that skill, concept or tactic, whatever it may be.

And so it's to be able to coach both pros and 10 use.

I think in.

In many ways, I've learned as much from them and from that experience as they've learned from me.

That's awesome.

Yeah, I think that's pretty funny.

It's all about meeting people where they're at, I guess.

Absolutely.

Now, you founded Fargo Hockey to kind of help athletes kind of get it.

Get that exposure and navigate the recruiting process.

And these seem to be.

I don't know if maybe I'm just being targeted on Instagram, but you seem to be.

These seem to be popping up more and more, and obviously they don't have the level of backing and professionalism that comes with a name like yours.

But where was the gap that you were seeing and what one.

What drove you to start that?

Was it all of these kind of fly by night, take your money programs that were out there?

Yeah, I appreciate the question.

When I was at Colgate, I guess an opportunity to start, really an exposure camp for aspiring collegiate players was something that we just felt like there was a bit of a gap in the.

In the market.

What we were finding is, like, there were so many aspiring college hockey players, and parents, for that matter, that were dealing with a lot of common misconceptions about the recruiting process, a lot of misconceptions about what college hockey really was or what the path to getting there looked like.

And so what we wanted to do is just create an experience where players and parents could have some firsthand interaction with college coaches.

Because the reality is, a lot of times you go to these events, you go to a showcase, you go to a tournament, and because of the NCAA rules, like, you're not really allowed to engage with a lot of these college coaches, even though parents really, all they want to do is get their questions answered, and players, for that matter, too.

So we wanted to create a space and a camp where we could bring the two Sides together, bring the parents, bring the campers, the aspiring college hockey players, together with the college coaches, the ones that have firsthand experience of how to do it, what they're looking for, what that process looks like, and then what it's like when you really get there.

And so to be able to have coaches share that experience with the families and to give them some background knowledge of what it's truly like and kind of bust some of those misconceptions that they have, I think has been something that.

It's been really rewarding.

It feels like we've been able to make a difference for some, create a lot of clarity and remove some of the noise that comes with the recruiting process.

Yeah, because it seems like the rules are constantly changing, too, with eligibility and now the transfer portal and all that stuff.

And I know girls that are playing D1 now that were scouted and committed in eighth grade.

But I guess things have changed in the recent years, and it's good to have someone like you to help guide some people along the way.

Yeah, you're bang on with that, Chuck.

Like, it's a world that is constantly changing, the NCAA and the rules.

And frankly, for.

For families that are going through it, sometimes for the first time with their oldest child or their first child that's looking to make that move, it can be a really complicated process.

And so to be able to just bring clarity to that four people in their path is a really.

It's a rewarding experience for us.

And I would say, too, the other thing that people don't realize is it's a.

It's also a process in which, you know, no.

No two experiences are exactly the same.

Everybody is running kind of their own unique race with it.

And so I think it can bring on a lot of stress and anxiety for families.

But anytime we can help there and kind of bring a little bit of clarity and burst some of the misconceptions that may be out there.

I think it's been a rewarding experience for us.

So switching now to the PWHL in your last two years, I guess a year and a half now behind the bench, what, from your perspective, has been the most impressive aspect of the rapid growth, because as Eric said earlier, it's just.

It's exploding right now.

The women's game.

Yeah, I am glad you said that.

I think it's.

I agree with you.

It's the pwhl, women's hockey.

It feels like it's on a.

It's on a rocket ship to the top right now.

And it's an exciting time to be a part of it, to play a small part in this.

But, you know, to your question, what's been most impressive, it's really difficult to pinpoint one thing.

I think, you know, the number one thing that comes to mind is just that, like, the fan engagement, you know, the engagement of people that are watching the eyeballs that are on the game.

And I don't think that happens without the type of strong ownership that we have at the top of the league.

Obviously, it's a single ownership group that owns the PWHL at the moment, but with their strong backing and continuous investment in the league, I think it's allowed for the quality of the play and the quality of the players that continue to come into the league to continue to grow.

And when you get a combination of high quality play, fan engagement, and I think what we're seeing now more and more is that grassroots connection, the women's game truly is in a.

It's in a great place, and the future is extremely bright.

I think for women's hockey, we've got to continue to have patience in its growth.

But I think with a league as strong as the pwhl, that's only going to continue to grow.

I think there's a lot of bright days ahead for women's hockey.

A couple of weeks ago now, I was back up in Massachusetts with my kids and had the opportunity to take them to a UMass Lowell Maine Men's game.

And that's where the Fleet play.

And I swear the arena was a third main jerseys, a third Lowell jerseys, and a third Fleet jerseys.

It was awesome.

The support that you see is tremendous.

I mean, I'm taking my boys to the Fleet in the Montreal game in the Garden this year, because I think that's gonna be awesome and it's gonna be rocking.

So I love it.

But we talked a little bit.

You shared a little bit about your thoughts on kind of what got the PWHL to time.

Now, where we're at, how does it need to evolve, how does it need to change to grow the league at a commensurate rate to, to not fail for the future?

Yeah, that's.

Yeah, that's a good question.

I, I But certainly doesn't feel from our position or my position, anyway, that's a possibility at this point.

Like I, as I said, I think with the strong ownership, the interest from the fans, that's.

There is something that just, it feels like a such a strong league.

And I know there's been iterations of pro leagues in the past that maybe haven't succeeded at the same level as the pwhl, but the PW feels really strong, is going to be here for years to come.

But I think on top of that, the one, I think as long as visibility continues to be at the forefront of what we're doing, which it is, and it will continue to be, then I think the opportunity for growth for our league is going to be there.

These young women that we talk about, our 10 years, those in college, they need role models to look up to.

And I think that's one of the things that makes me so proud now is like our girls that are growing up playing hockey, they now have professional female athletes, female hockey players to aspire to be just like.

And that's something that the players that are in our league today didn't have, a professional league of players to look up to.

So to think about how much growth opportunity there is in the women's game, just with the visibility alone and the impact that can have on our youth, it feels like a really special time that I think a lot of people see and understand and really there's no limits in terms of what this can become.

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Yeah, I think it's fantastic.

And it's just a tremendous community.

And I think you see that is something that is unique to just hockey in general.

And I think that's where you will really see this sport succeed because of the sense of community.

Yeah, you mentioned the grassroots stuff.

I always see the Sirens putting on clinics for the youth girls up in New Jersey and looking at role models.

And not like, I don't want to say NHLers aren't as accessible.

Maybe they're not as accessible as the PWHL players today, but it made me think of a personal story.

So so those that listen to the podcast know I'm originally from Long island, moved down to Delaware about four years ago.

My daughter has all her New York teams, so she clung on to the Sirens and with her being a goalie and the emergence of Kaylee Osborne, she's that's her girl right now and we try to make it up.

We see one to two games a year.

We're two and a half hours away.

But and with three kids playing travel hockey, I know everyone on the podcast knows how hard it is to get any personal time.

So we get up there once or twice a year.

And my daughter, in addition to playing for the little Flyers boys, she for the Camaraderie she plays for premier ice prospects, the Pip teams in the summer for the camaraderie to be with the girls.

And Taylor Gerard happened to be one of the coaches at an event we went to in August in Nashville and, and immediately my daughter went up to her and she was so receptive, took a picture with her.

And then New Year's Eve, we ended up going to a Sirens game when you played the goldeneyes up in Jersey and she wrote a sign, hey, Taylor, remember me from pip?

And can I have a sticker puck?

And she didn't even hesitate.

She signed a stick and threw it right over the boards for her.

So over the glass.

So, like you did mention, it's not just my story.

I see it all the time on Instagram and things like that.

The connection that, that these professionals are making with the girls is really going a long way.

I. Yeah, I, I couldn't agree more, Chuck.

That's.

I think that's a big part of this, is seeing not only the fan engagement, but the engagement of our players with the fans, with the people that are watching and supporting.

I think when you're.

When you're not only there, but when you're engaging with these professional players, you can see yourself becoming that.

And that's a great story that you shared about your daughter and glad she had that experience, but it's one that I think many people that get to come to the games can probably have a similar story to share as well.

It's great.

Oh, absolutely.

My kids train.

They live up in Massachusetts now and they train with Mike Boyle year round.

And one of my oldest was getting.

They have a shooting room there so you can mess around before he goes up for his gym sessions.

So they're in there messing around.

There was a female hockey player in there, started giving him some tips and tricks and working with him a little bit.

And then he said, hey, see, I get take off.

And then lo and behold, is one of your players.

I can't remember who it was.

I think it was either maybe Casey o' Brien or who else?

Anna Barkman, one of the two of them.

They would have been there shooting.

And just the willingness to do that type of thing is so incredible, so cool.

It's so great.

We, we had two expansion teams this year in Seattle and Vancouver.

And we see the Takeover Tour literally taking over arenas, selling out arenas all over.

Fans in Detroit yelling that they want a team and Washington as well.

I think it's only inevitable that we see expansion.

What markets do you think that the PWHL might expand to or will they in the next couple years?

Yeah, that's a, That's a great question, one that I don't have any insight into, but I do think expansion is inevitable in this league that is just growing so fast.

And.

You said it.

But having been on that on the bench for some of these Takeover Tour games to go into Washington, D.C. in front of over 17,000 fans and in Detroit, Michigan, and who's had multiple games, I think you could make a case for a lot of different markets that are out there, both on the Canadian side and the US Side.

But, you know, the one thing's for sure, no matter where the league expands to, no matter which fan base they choose, ultimately it's going to be with a lot of thought and care, not just to choose a market that has great youth hockey and a great fan base, but one that makes sense for the league as it continues to grow from a larger pitcher, from a player experience.

There's a lot of factors I know, that are going into choosing these, these new homes, these, these expansion teams, but I think if Seattle and Vancouver have taught us anything, is that these teams can be both impactful on the ice and off the ice right away.

So I'm like you guys, I'm excited to see where the PWHL chooses to go next, but it's going to come with a lot of excitement and again, more growth for the women's game, which is tremendous.

Now, Coach, have you noticed having played at Capital One arena, where it's over 17,000 fans, do the girls kind of walk or play with a little more swagger, or do they, like, do they embrace it and really thrive in it?

Yeah.

Well, it's an interesting question because I think what's evident is just about every night that we get to play, whether you're going to Montreal and playing in 8 or 9,000 or Toronto, same thing.

Ottawa plays in front of a full barn a lot of nights.

Like, it's an experience that is certainly special.

There's 17,500 or not sure the exact number, but it's, it's absolutely.

It takes you back.

But the reality is it's.

It's almost on a nightly basis wherever you go in the league.

The fan support in person is tremendous.

And certainly I think for some that maybe experience that for the first time, it can take you back a little bit.

It can shock you.

You'd be silly not to look around and appreciate it, and it might take you a shift or two to get used to it.

But I think the great thing, one of the great things about the league is, like, we've come to almost expect it on a nightly basis, and it's normalized it for a lot of our players.

They're getting used to playing in front of those types of crowds, which is outstanding.

Yeah, that's incredible.

That's absolutely right.

There's not a huge margin between a capital One game and some of your average games, just because of the fan support.

And I think it's great.

Yeah, it really is.

So looking from the outside in, the management and yourself have done a tremendous job in the last couple drafts, kind of rebuilding the Sirens from missing the playoffs last year and the big turnaround this year, where you're almost at your win total only halfway through the season.

You got 20, 24 first overall pick, Sarah Filier, who ended up winning the Rookie of the Year last year.

This year you turn around and have the first pick for Kristina Koltakova, who's playing in the Olympics, over for the Czech, and the Patty Meyer Award winner, Casey o' Brien from Wisconsin just loaded up there.

You currently have the youngest average players in the league.

So what challenges or successes would you say have you found in developing these young players to contribute to the turnaround?

Yeah, it's a great question, Chuck.

I think there's a lot of things that have gone into building this team to where it is today.

Obviously, two seasons where, you know, the New York team was not where we wanted to be at the end of the year, and it's afforded us the opportunity to pick first overall a couple times.

And anytime you can add talent like the players you mentioned, Philier, Kaltenkova, o' Brien, at the top of draft class, it sets you up for some success.

And.

And certainly the curveball last year of adding the two expansion teams and losing some key players in what you're trying to build in a program, in a team.

I give our general manager, Pascal Daou, a lot of credit because we've had a lot of conversations over the last year and a half and going into last year's draft with trying to kind of look at building a team a little bit differently, where some teams had a little bit more veteran experience still in their lineup.

We were kind of starting with a younger core, as you mentioned.

And while it's exciting and I think what our GM and scouts did a great job of is adding talent that really fits the way that we want to play.

As we talked about earlier, we have an identity, how we'd like to play the game as a team and we went out and were able to acquire a lot of talent.

I think that that fit that mold really well.

So that feels good as a coach, knowing that you've got players that can really, they can come in, they can be themselves and hopefully hit the ground running.

Now you never know until they get there, until the season gets going.

And what I'd say is our players have done a really good job and they've gained some valuable experience early on, played in some key roles even as first year players.

Players like, like Talty and Casey and Ann Cherkowski.

So many others even as first year players have come in and played a significant role.

One, because we've needed them to, but two, also because they can just come in and be themselves.

And I think that's, that's an important piece to this is that we've been really calculated on the pieces that we've been able to add.

With that crop of talent that you have, was there someone that may have surprised you a little bit in the level of growth that you saw from them?

And I don't really mean on the ice, I mean off the ice.

And some of those intangibles, the leadership characteristics that kind of really took to it.

Truthfully, I could probably look back at a number of players that were rookies last year that have grown tremendously into year two.

There's some real growth, I would say, from players like Maya Nyland person, Kaylee Osborne, went from being a backup to now in our opinion, like one of the top goaltenders in the league.

And I think part of that is as a, as a new player, being a first time professional, there's a way to handle yourself on a daily basis, having strong habits, taking care of yourself at the rink, away from the rink.

All those little intangibles that come with being a professional athlete, I think are some of the things that, that that group a year ago when drafted, maybe didn't know coming out of college or maybe from over in Europe, but with a year under their belt and with a year of kind of learning under some of the leaders like, like Micah Zandi Hart, who's a tremendous pro, or JB Bourbonnet or Peyton Levis or Kristen o', Neill, like there's so many great leaders on our team, I think that are, you know, what they do so well is they set a high standard, they expect a lot out of some of the younger players.

And so if you're a younger player coming to the rink for the first time, you've got great role models.

If you're trying to figure out how to be a good pro.

They're right there in front of you and it's an easy lead to follow.

Yeah, it's absolutely a testament to the culture and the environment that you help foster there at the program.

For sure.

We covered how you got into the game, coaching your daughter at the youth level, college, and now the pros, cons and we got into the sirens and now we're going to hit some wrap up questions here.

So when you step back and take a look at your career so far, what accomplishments have meant the most to you?

Yeah, that's a good one.

I think it's hard to pinpoint certain moments, accomplishments.

I think overall I really proud of the program that was built at Colgate that I played a part in.

I take a lot of pride in kind of the growth of that program.

What went into it, it was 12 years with giving a lot and, and so really look back at those years with a lot of pride.

But I think more than anything like through those years, it's not just the, the wins or the championships.

I think as a coach, like seeing people kind of find what they're passionate about is something that, that I take a lot of pride in.

And that may be something that they discover in class, something that drives them that maybe clears a path of what they want to do when they graduate.

Like seeing people kind of come into their own in that way, seeing others devote so much time and energy into becoming the best players that they can like and find a new level in their game and maybe they become pros and like that those kinds of moments or accomplishments kind of mean the most.

Not that I'm responsible for them, but I think to play a small part in helping some of the athletes that I've had the opportunity to surround myself with, see them get there through our program.

And even today as a professional coach, seeing some of the growth of our players from week to week, day to day, season to season, I think is something that, that all will continue to fuel me as a.

As long as I get to coach.

That's awesome.

So looking ahead 20, 30 years down the line, what is it that you hope to be kind of remembered for in the women's hockey world since really at this point you're spanning every single level with coaching your daughter all the way up to the pwhl.

So what is it that you kind of hope to be remembered for?

Yeah, I think at the end of the day I'm going to play a really small part in, in hockey and in Women's hockey.

And I think try not to look too far ahead 20 years down the road.

I just.

Whether it's my 10U major team with the Colonials or coaching the New York Sirens, I just.

I would hope that the players and the people that I get to be around would say that I've helped them grow in some way, shape or form.

And if not me specifically, then the environment that we've collectively created has helped them thrive and become a better version of who they are.

I hope they continue to love the game.

I hope the game continues to grow and more people get to experience it.

Because for me, it's been such a big part of my life and my upbringing and who I am, and I have so much to be grateful for.

I just hope others get to have kind of the same experience or a similar experience that I've had the opportunity to have.

So I think if I can in some ways leave it better than that I found it, then that's all I could ask for.

Yeah, I have no doubts that's going to take place.

You've been in the trenches for a little bit around all levels.

So what advice would you give to an aspiring girl playing now, trying to make it to that D1, even D3 level, and ultimately the professional level?

Not only players, but what advice would you give to aspiring coaches as well?

Yeah, great question.

I think for players and coaches, life's really short.

And I would.

I would just say, like, the number one thing for me is do what you love.

And I think, like, if you truly enjoy what you do when you're curious and you're hungry and you want to get better at it, like whether it's going to practice or going to the rink to coach every day, then doing those things don't seem like a chore.

I hope that players love the game.

They want to keep getting better.

They want to keep getting better because they personally have high aspirations for themselves and they want to continue to grow.

Unfortunately, I think you see a lot of families, a lot of parents that kind of are the drivers of the bus.

And I would just say when parents can give that up to their kids, when the kid.

When the kid, the child, the young girl is the one that kind of takes ownership for who they're becoming on and off the ice.

I think that's when you get to see the best in people, then you get to see the best in players, is when it's intrinsically driven.

So I think, I think parents were, as I look at it, you're kind of Those, you're.

Those on a bowling alley.

You're the bumpers down the lane.

You're there to guide them and to push them.

But hopefully it's the players that are rolling that ball down the aisle alley.

And they're the ones.

They're the ones that are taking leadership lead on.

On their growth and development.

And that's the biggest thing that I would say.

Yeah, I think that's.

It's great advice.

I'm sure you've seen it, kind of experienced it at all different levels, levels of parent interaction and things like that.

But I truly believe that sport in general is the best way to kind of develop people in their commitment to things.

There's no better game than hockey that does that.

So we covered a lot today.

Because you've got such a storied past.

Is there anything that we kind of didn't touch on that you maybe wanted to push out there?

And I just.

I just think there's such a.

This hockey community is such a great one.

It can be such a great one.

I think that message.

I've been in a lot of different ranks now over the course of my career, and at the professional level, even the college level, and especially you notice a lot of things when you're in the rink as a youth parent, a youth coach.

And I just hope that parents can continue to make that a great environment for players, for coaches, be the best supporters that they can be, and just ensure that these kids that are playing at this great game just continue to love it.

And I think if they do, if they enjoy coming to the rink, being with their teammates, learning, growing through all the ups and downs, and parents allow them, their kids to experience the ups and downs.

I think we're developing and building some tough and resilient kids that love the game.

At the end of the day, I think for myself or anybody else, we are who we are because of all our experiences.

And so I just love to encourage parents to continue to foster growth and this great sense of community that we have in hockey in our ranks, in.

In the game.

So for anyone listening who might want to reach out and dive a little deeper into resources, maybe more specifically with Fargo Hockey, what's the best.

Best way for them to get in touch with you for that?

Yeah, good question.

I.

With Fargo Hockey, we just launched a website recently.

It's gfargohockey.com Pretty easy to get to.

And you can, through that, connect all our.

The social channels.

We're trying to be active on that, but feel free to reach out and really for whether it's parents that have questions about the recruiting process or aspiring young coaches, it's an open door kind of mindset here with, with what we're trying to build and help foster.

So feel free to reach out and I'd love to connect with, with anybody that has questions.

Awesome.

So one last question.

Hit you with a hard one before we end in some way.

Ask all our guests.

I think given your focus over the years on, on instilling this principle into your teams, I'm curious of your answer.

So we ask everybody, what is your definition of development?

Right.

And that can be in kind of really any land lens you want to frame it through.

Yeah, like the.

I don't know that it's an easy.

It's an easy answer, but I just think one of the things that comes to mind when I think about development is just like embrace the, embracing the, the messiness of it, like development.

We've said this for many years, some of the coaches and I, that, that I've had the chance to work with.

But yeah, development is not linear and it's a messy process.

And I, we get to see that with pros.

We get to see that with 10 new players.

It's a very up and down journey.

And I just think if we continue to find ways to grow from wins, from losses, from ups and downs, just continuously finding ways and staying curious about how to get better, eventually you keep putting one foot in front of the other, you end up where you're supposed to be.

Great advice.

I like it.

Yeah, I like the definition.

Coach, thanks for taking an hour out of your time from, for the Olympic break here to sit down with us and instill some knowledge and talk about your journey and the sirens and the growth of the pwhl.

So we really appreciate it.

Thank you.

No, guys.

Chuck, Eric, thanks a lot for having me.

It's a pleasure.

Big supporter of the podcast and can't wait to, to hear more of what's coming up here soon.

Awesome.

Thanks, coach.

Really appreciate it.

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