There’s No Textbook for the Direct Path”: Craig Desjarlais on Hockey Development

This is Sharpening youg Edge with Chuck and Eric.

In this episode, we'll be speaking with Craig dejarlis.

Hello and welcome to another episode of Sharpening youg Edge, presented by CV3 Hockey Development.

I'm Chuck Vertolino, along with my co host Eric Melanson.

And today on the show, we have the hockey director for the Loudon Knights Tier 2 hockey club, also the director of player development for the Washington little caps tier 1 hockey club, and now involved with TPH or T total Package Hockey down in Virginia.

We welcome to the show.

Craig dejarlis, welcome to the show.

Thanks, guys.

Excited to be here.

Hey, Craig, thanks for coming on.

I know we've had this in the works for a little while.

You were one of the first ones.

I think I made Chuck put on the list.

I appreciate that.

Yeah, I mean, just a wealth of knowledge and everything he did for my family was tremendous.

And what you've done to the hockey community in Northern Virginia is truly amazing.

So it's a testament that ION came back to what it is now, and it's morphed into TPH Virginia that we'll get into is just your hard work and dedication and love for the game.

So kudos to you.

Thank you.

It's definitely come full circle, looking back a year ago as we were fighting for our lives to keep this building open and all the programming in it to today, where we're really looking forward to the future and all the great things that lie ahead of us.

So certainly credit to a lot of people that fought real hard for this.

So I appreciate your kind words, but it takes an army.

Yeah, absolutely.

Just like hockey, it's a team sport.

So you grew up in Windsor, and I know that it's.

Hockey is probably in your blood from.

From birth, but how did you get into hockey?

I mean, how did you fall in love with it?

Yeah, I mean, honestly, it's.

It's like that typical Canadian story.

Everybody says the same thing, but it's the truth.

Like, I was born in Windsor, Ontario.

It's a border town of Detroit.

So I grew up literally like one mile from the Detroit River.

So I kind of had the best of both worlds, but just grew up, had a hockey stick in my hand at a young age, just playing, playing on the driveway and shooting a tennis ball or whatever and just got into skating when I was really young on a pond A local pond near my house that froze over, and we'd go out there and skate.

And I think it was just a part of the culture, to be honest with you.

It was something that most kids at least tried when they were really young.

Whether or not they stuck with it or not, everybody has a different story.

But for me, I just.

I absolutely fell in love with the sport right from the time I first started.

And just being in a neighborhood with a bunch of friends that also played, we were all kind of influential in how passionate we were about the game, playing street hockey and everything.

So started playing hockey when I was organized hockey, I guess, as young as maybe five, and then just all the way up through the ranks of youth hockey.

So, yeah, I look back on my childhood and I was very grateful to have those experiences.

It was just.

I played the game for the love of it, and I think that's probably why I ended up having a career in the sport.

It's just because of how much I love the game so much.

Yeah.

I think anybody that's ever met you for more than one minute knows your love of the game in developing the next generation to continue to carry the torch.

So, yeah, I mean, awesome story, obviously, super jealous, but we had similar.

It's similar in Boston and a little bit better of a professional hockey team, but that's neither here nor there.

So if you can delve into a little bit more of your hockey journey, from your progress from youth to juniors, what teams did you play for and what habits did you build early on that you think helped carry you through your entire career?

My youth story's actually pretty unique.

I never played a single game of AAA hockey as a kid.

And I grew up in a town called La Salle, Ontario, which was just.

Just outside of Windsor.

And we just.

Back then, there was no such thing as multiple levels of tier 2 hockey.

Like, you either made the travel team or you didn't.

So if you didn't make the travel team, you played Hell's League hockey.

And that was perfectly acceptable.

And a lot of kids played years of Helsink hockey and got just as much out of it.

So for me, I was just never in a position for multiple reasons.

Like, it was very expensive to play AAA hockey and a lot of travel commitment and stuff.

So it was difficult for my parents to be able to put me into that.

Into that level.

So I played.

I guess you consider it AA travel hockey, tier 2 travel hockey, all the way up till I was 16 years old.

And to me, it was always enough.

Like, I Was never in a position where I wanted more.

Like I just loved the game and I knew I was getting better and I knew that I was surrounded by good people.

And so for me I just kept playing every year and I kind of always believed that if I just kept working hard at some point like I would get an opportunity through that.

Actually, even when I was 15 years old, I started to get invited to some junior tryouts and I knew I wasn't ready for it physically, but I started to go to those just to kind of get the understanding of what junior hockey is all about.

And here I am, a bony 15 year old kid on the ice with 20 year old men and it was really eye opening.

In fact, my first junior camp I went to, I got hit so hard I broke my collarbone and I kind of knew I wasn't ready yet.

But I went back and played one more year, youth hockey.

And then the next year I grew a little bit, got a little bit stronger and I ended up making a junior B team at 16 years old, which coming straight out of Tier 2 hockey was not very common at that time.

So I made a big jump that year into junior hockey.

Played three years of junior hockey.

I played my first year for the Windsor Bulldogs, which back in the day that was called the Western Junior B Hockey League.

They've changed all the names now over the years, but played for Windsor Bulldogs under Joe Gerbe, father of the famous Gerbe kids that played in the NHL and had great junior careers.

And then my second and third year of junior hockey, I played in the same league for the Leamington Flyers, which was a real upstart hockey club at the time.

We had a lot of, a lot of kids come from various areas of Ontario and Michigan and we had some real powerhouse teams.

For a couple years I played under Vern Stendlen, who, Verne was kind of a local legend in my hometown and he was drafted.

He had a very successful career for the London Knights and played a little bit in the, in the NHL actually for the California Golden Seals if you can believe that short lived NHL franchise.

And Vern and that staff there really helped me develop.

And I was fortunate enough in my last year junior to get a scholarship to play Division I at Bowling Green State University.

So I went from youth hockey in a small town to a D1 commit in three years and went off to college at 19, turning 20, I guess my freshman year and played four years at bowling Green State University.

That's a pretty incredible journey, I mean, especially if you Try to mirror it to, to today's growth and development model across the states and Canada.

That's very uncommon.

It's almost Minnesota esque, I guess, would be the closest comparison.

And many will say that they're doing things the right way.

And I think there's probably merit to that argument.

And Eric, just to add on that, like, this is a theme we see over and over on our episodes.

We just had Chase Fuchs on a couple episodes ago, who's the head, head scout of Red deer in the WHL.

He also went on and played D1 hockey at Clarkson, and he was telling the same story where he played double A growing up and he got to juniors and then eventually D1.

So the message we see is everyone's got their own path.

So just because you're not playing tier one at 10 years old doesn't mean you're not going to make it.

So that, that could be its own podcast.

I have those conversations now.

We're getting ready for the upcoming tryout season.

Right.

We're wrapping up current season, getting ready for the next one.

And just today, I bet you I had 15 conversations with moms and dads asking those questions about does my son or daughter need to play at this level next year?

And I understand they're, they're trying to learn the landscape of it and stuff, but everybody, you just said it.

Everyone has their own path.

Every single person has their own path.

And there's no two paths are the same.

Kids develop at different times.

The passion level is different at different ages.

So there's really no, there's no textbook for the direct path that you have to take to accomplish your goals.

That's for sure.

Yeah.

I mean, there's so many changes that occur to a player's body, to their mindset, to the game itself, when the introduction of checking.

I mean, there's so many factors that contribute to everybody's growth pattern.

But for those guys like yourself that had some pro experience and that went on to have success after college or after juniors.

Can you talk a little bit?

Like, what separates the.

Those players that just go play at the NCAA level and then those ones that are on an NHL roster, like, how much of a gap is there?

Yeah, I mean, for me, guys, like the biggest, the biggest step, the biggest jump in my career was going from juniors to college.

That was really eye opening for me.

My freshman year, I went to a team that was a top 10 team in the country.

So incredible talent level.

But the biggest jump for me was that just because, you know, you go from playing against teenagers to grown men, like 24 year old men that are physically mature.

It's so fast and it's so strong and so skilled and the players are just absolutely amazing.

The game was a different style when I played.

You still had those high end offensive players, but it was a little bit more physical.

There's a lot more clutching and grabbing and it was a little bit more of a rugby match, to be honest with you.

It's a really hard game to play back then.

Real physical.

And so to answer your question about making that step from college to pro, I mean there's a lot of different levels.

Obviously.

I think the players that you see go to the NHL right out of college, I mean they're just really, really elite players.

I mean they're in that 1 or 2% globally in talent.

And it's not just the talent.

I think looking back on it all these years later, there's things I would do over again.

I love to have a good time when I was in college and I like to go out there and have fun in the community and whatever.

And I think that the players that really were focused on their habits on the ice, off the ice, in the classroom, they kind of separated themselves in some ways.

And maybe you don't see it when you're going through those four years, but I think that the players that go to the NHL, they have like a different mindset.

They have, they have the skill set, but they also have the, the discipline and, and I just think they have the habits that get them there.

And I think that's one of the biggest things.

I mean it's, it's a, it's a major, major commitment to play at that level.

Looking at other levels of pro hockey, I mean, back then there was multiple leagues.

Now it's, it's smaller, there's only a few different leagues.

But I think just getting to the professional lifestyle was a lot different because the biggest thing I would say is there's no guarantee for tomorrow.

And when you get to that level, it becomes a job.

And you have to be accountable to your team and you have to be, you have to be a, you have to do your job day in and day out, whatever that job is, because you could be replaced any day.

And, and that kept you on your toes.

And quite frankly, it drove a lot of people out of the sport.

Just the unknown and getting traded and getting Waived and getting picked up by other teams and moving around.

It's a tough lifestyle.

So I went through it myself.

My first year pro hockey, I went from an NHL development camp, the Red Wings, where I was on the ice with 13 or 15 future hall of Famers, to three weeks later, I was shuffled down two different leagues, ended up in the East Coast Hockey League, and I.

And I got waived due to players coming down from the American League that were under contract.

And so I went through a whirlwind my first month of pro hockey, and I was like, I didn't know if I was cut out for it, but I ended up finding a good home and played for a handful of years and had a great experience.

But it certainly is a different lifestyle and you're never really fully prepared for until you go through it.

Those are fantastic points.

I mean, I think the common theme was kind of grit and resiliency, to just have the mindset to be able to grind that out once it gets to a certain level, and.

And, like you said, becomes a job.

Yeah, so.

So there becomes a point, too, where an athlete, you see it in any sport where an athlete starts to see their end of their career as bittersweet as it is.

At what point did you start thinking about life after playing and how hard or difficult was that?

Identity shift?

Yeah, that's a great question.

I mean, I think we all want to play forever because we love the sport so much, but my body started breaking down.

I had some pretty good injuries in my career, and I just think the grind was starting to become a little bit more difficult for me.

So I think in the level I played at, when I was finishing my pro career playing in the Southern Professional Hockey League in Knoxville, I was having the time of my life.

But, I mean, we don't make a lot of money in that league, and you're pushing 30 years old and you want to start a career of some sort.

So there was a lot of factors for me.

I also got married the summer before my last year pro, and I started to think about different options for my life.

So I kind of went into that last season knowing it would be.

If it was, it was going to be my last year playing.

And I tried to make the most of it.

There's no question I could have played longer.

Like, I actually, it's funny, I always tell people, like, by the time I was 28 years old, I finally figured out how to play.

It's like, yeah, you go through all these years and all these different styles, and I'm finally like pull it all together, like right when I'm getting ready to retire.

But.

But I do think I could have kept playing.

But I don't regret when I stepped away either because I think I went out as a good player and I think I transitioned into a.

Into a business that I.

That I started and that was a really hard transition.

We moved and moved to Philadelphia and I started a company.

And I think the thing I missed the most was just being around.

Being around the boys.

I mean, the sport's always going to be there to some aspect.

Twenty something years later, I'm still involved in it, but being around the guys and that camaraderie with, with your teammates and stuff, that's the hardest thing to walk away from.

I think every player will probably tell you the same thing.

Yeah, you've been around the game for a long time and I think you.

After so many years of being a player and being a coach, how do you look at the way we are doing development today?

Do you think it's better?

Do you think it's worse?

Is it just different to.

To kind of keep up with the totality of the sports lifestyle?

It's a great question.

I think it's harder for coaches now because I think the parents are more knowledgeable and I think that there's.

We're compared to everybody else.

So if I'm on the ice trying to teach a kid something, that kid's probably already done something similar with five or six other skills coaches.

And so the market is really big now on this.

Skills coaches, 20 or 25 years ago almost did not exist even at the professional level.

There was your head coach and your assistant coaches and that was pretty much it.

Now you've got skating coaches, shooting coaches, everything you can imagine, right?

Mental coaches.

So I think that skill development now is really good because we have a lot of resources and I think that we can offer a lot of drills and habits for kids that will help them with the modern game.

Because the game is different now than it used to be.

It's a faster, more skilled game.

So I think there's a lot of resources available for us.

But I also think that it's challenging for people that are trying to get into this industry because they're always being compared to the previous skills coach or hey, I had this coach in Dallas or I had this coach in here and they did this.

And so I think there's so much information out there now that in some ways it's challenging for us as coaches because we want to make sure we're doing the best we can for these kids and for these families.

But I do think that the market is.

It's a challenging market.

Now, do you see a point where, and maybe you've seen it personally, where some of these kids have just been taught things?

Because we have social media and everybody's an expert.

Do you see that they're just wrong?

I mean, they're just plain wrong.

And maybe it's some parental involvement a little bit too much YouTube or something like that.

But are you seeing that just as much if not?

Eric?

That's a good question.

I don't want to say people are just teaching things wrong, but I do think that the game sometimes is taught to be more complicated than it really is.

I mean, at the end of the day, hockey is a fairly simple game.

I mean, you've got five players on the ice on each team.

You're trying to score a goal, you've got three zones.

And I think that sometimes there are some coaches out there that try to complicate the game a little bit more than necessary.

And if you look at the game at a high level, like, if you get.

Look, go watch a D1 game, the skills are off the charts, but the best asset that those players have is their brains, and they can make simple plays and make smart plays, and that's one of the biggest reasons they get to where they're at.

So I think sometimes the game needs to be simplified a little bit.

And I see some kids that are still trying to work on their.

Their skill level, their development at 11 years old, and they don't really have the skill set to be able to pull off a certain move with the puck offensively or whatever.

And they're working on it.

And I'm like.

And I think to myself, like, why don't we learn how to just skate properly, receive a pass properly and shoot the puck properly?

But you just said it.

I mean, they're watching YouTube and they're watching Connor Bedard, and they're watching Auston Matthews and.

And all these players do these things.

Connor McDavid and Celebrini, and they're trying to do that.

So.

And that's great.

I love the creativity.

But I do think hockey is still a simple game.

And I always go back to, like, Nick Lindstrom.

I was able to skate with him a little bit when I went to that development camp and just watched his whole career.

And Nick Lindstrom, like, is arguably, if not the best, probably one of the top two best defensemen.

That's ever played the game.

And it's because he was the smartest player on the ice every single night.

He just made the right play all the time.

And I try to talk to players about how valuable they can be if they can just learn how to make the game easy and make smart plays, especially defensemen.

So I do feel sometimes like I'm that old guy when I'm trying to, like, teach a kid that, hey, it's okay to just make that simple play.

The parents are like, ah, but did you see this?

And I'm like, yeah, but.

So you got to be respectful of both sides.

I guess that's.

That's absolute great advice.

And I think we could probably go off and have a whole separate podcast just on that and all the things.

But I will say that for me, I think that personally there's some.

The creativity is lacking, I guess, the free play.

And I think obviously it's region dependent.

You don't get the kids playing on ice and everything.

Ponds.

But I think that's why you see some of the success like David Carl has with the positionless offense that he runs at Denver.

And those kids are just.

They're smart, they're able to go out there and make simple plays, make flashy plays if they want, but they.

They have that trust and they just go out and have fun.

Yeah.

And I think the game now is so good because basically you've got five players on the ice that are all kind of moving all over the place.

And you see the way teams defend now, where, like, they swarm in the D zone, you've got four players in the corner killing a penalty.

But now it's common.

You see it watching the Olympics.

They're playing the same style and.

But the fact that the D now carry the puck up the ice and they're in the offensive zone, in the corners, behind the net, like, I love it.

I love the way the game's going and creativity is so important.

And the biggest detriment we could ever have as coaches for youth players is taking away their ability to do those things and not allowing them to make mistakes.

Because as soon as we start telling these kids that they can't do something, they're going to be afraid to make a mistake and it's going to affect their development.

So I think we have to allow kids to make mistakes, carry the puck, turn it over, learn from it, especially at these younger grassroots levels.

I think that's the biggest thing that we have to make sure we put focus on is allowing these kids to be creative.

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and something else we talk about and I guess we kind of alluded to it a little bit earlier.

Nowadays we see organizations, maybe the money grabs where they slap elite tags on everything at 8 years old.

And Eric and I talk about all the time that there's no such thing as an elite 8 year old.

And I saw recently too and I don't remember where it was, but there's people slapping elite tags on 3 and 4 year olds nowadays, which is crazy.

Maybe at 14, 15 once they go through puberty and start to develop.

So in your opinion, what does elite actually look like at the post Puberty ages 14, 16, 18 years old?

Yeah, it's funny.

I joke around all the time with my partner at TPH here, Doug shepherd, about that word elite.

It's thrown around all over the place and it drives me crazy because I think it is something that organizations can use to entice families to believe that it's something it's not.

And that's a great question, I think if you want to use that word elite, Talking about a 14, 15, 16 year old player, I think it's a player that has a real good understanding of the game, knows how to play the game, not just has a good skill set, but really understands the game itself, making good decisions on the ice.

And for me like the longer I do this, I really see value like the 24 hour athlete mentality.

Like I think elite athletes, whether it's a hockey player, a basketball player or a golfer, they have a mindset that they kind of keep with them all the time, whether they're active in a sport or not.

They get enough sleep, they eat properly, they take care of their bodies.

So I think it's so competitive now in our entire world of youth sports that the players that don't do all of those other things away from the field or away from the ice, they fall behind a little bit.

And they may not fall behind at 14 or 15, but usually by 17 or 18, it catches up to them now.

So I just think elite is somebody who puts in the effort all the time.

I mean, you got to still be a kid and do stupid stuff and go hang out with your buddies, but you also have to understand how important it is to do all those intangible things just to make sure that you're going to stay at that level year after year.

So I do want to get to another question that leads us into tph, but I'd be remiss if I didn't mention your son Dylan and his successful transition from hockey to golf.

And I know that in all the conversations we've had and just my interactions with him, I would probably use that phrase elite for him, as he's made that transition to golf, because he's done so quite successfully.

And I know he's putting in lots of work, and you're quite proud of him, so that's pretty awesome.

Yeah.

Thank you.

He's.

He just turned 16 last week.

It's hard to believe.

He's almost my height now.

He's like six foot tall.

And he.

He's.

He spends five, five or six days a week training in some aspect.

He goes to a local place here where we live, and he's got a great supporting cast of coaches.

And he's in, He's.

He's.

He's all in, man.

Mental training, dealing with adversity and golf, which is probably the hardest sport in the world for adversity.

It's just you and nobody else.

And so he's.

He's really driven.

I appreciate you bringing that up.

He still loves hockey, still loves the sport, just never was passionate enough to push himself in it.

Golf's always been his passion, so he certainly made the right choice, and I'm.

I'm really proud of him.

Yeah, it's awesome.

It's.

It's great to.

To hear about his success.

And I know you all super proud of him.

Yeah.

So as we transition to talk about your.

Your latest and greatest venture with TPH Virginia, and you've done this a ton in your past, I'm sure, is the hiring of Coaches and evaluating coaches and bringing in the right talent.

So can you talk to us a little bit about things that you might look at that are maybe different from what you've been taught in the past or what you've seen.

So basically just you're talking about the current landscape of like hockey now.

Yeah.

So like for you personally, how are you evaluating if you're going to hire a coach or bring somebody into TPH to be on staff there?

How are you looking to, to hire them?

What criteria do you kind of measure them against?

I think it changes every year and it's crazy to say this, but like, one of the most important things for me is that they're a professional person.

Like, doesn't mean they have to be have a really high ranking job.

But I do want to have professional people that know how to communicate with parents, they know how to communicate with kids.

A knowledge of hockey is obviously very important, but also the ability to be a leader and be a mentor to these kids and know how to handle situations that arise in this youth landscape we live in now with moms and dads.

But I think the coaches that I try to lead our program are just very good people, good human beings understand that we're doing this to try to develop the kids.

We want them to be better at the end of the season than they were when they came in.

We certainly want to win, but it's not how we're going to gauge our success at the end of the day, like if we're helping these kids and moving them along and helping them advance, then we're doing our job.

And I think we're going to have a long standing impact on those kids.

So I think the thing I'm most proud of is that all the coaches that come into our club have a similar mentality.

Like they understand that we're a player development club.

We probably aren't going to win as many games as some of the other clubs in our region, but we advance as many or more players than anybody else at the tier two level and we're really proud of that.

Some people ask us all the time, like, hey, how come you guys, your Double A teams can never win a championship?

Well, because we don't have any of our top players left in our Double A programs.

Most years, most of those kids are all playing AAA and we're proud of that.

So I think that I want to make sure that our coaches have that same mindset when they're coming in here.

Like we're doing this to try to help These kids, whether they're trying to get to that level or trying to get from Low Ray to upper A or upper A to double A or whatever it may be, we're trying to really help these kids develop and progress in their youth journeys.

Yeah, I love that.

I love the development focus.

It's amazing.

So, so we'd be kidding ourselves if we, we said hockey didn't revolve around money.

A lot of the times nowadays that could be any, any competitive youth sport now.

But I've seen it firsthand.

Maybe some smaller organizations with some loose standards trying to tiptoe around the parents and please the parents in, in what they do and that, that their decisions that they make, maybe placing a kid where they don't belong because the parents think they belong at a higher level and they don't want to lose their money.

So in your opinion or in what standards are non negotiable inside of your programs?

Yeah, that everything you just bundled up there is like a two hour conversation.

There's so much to that.

And I do make myself accessible to the parents, probably more than I should.

And I have a lot of those conversations.

And you mentioned tryouts there and I'll get to your question in a minute.

But tryouts are really, really hard in youth hockey and we don't get it.

All right?

Like we make mistakes every single year, but they're not intentional.

Like we sit there and there's 70 kids on the ice sometimes or 50 kids on the ice.

We're doing the best we can and sometimes we probably will make, make a, a decision that probably wasn't the right one.

But it's never ill intent.

Like we really try to go through it in an honest process and, and I think every organization does as well.

I really believe there's a level of sincerity going through these tryouts.

So I think for us like non negotiables is just we want good character, we want good people in the club.

The last thing any of us want is whether it's a coach or a parent or a kid to be a problem and then it affect and have a domino effect throughout the organization.

And we put a lot of time into this and a lot of effort and for very little money.

There's not much money in running a youth hockey organization.

We're all passionate.

Our coaches are mostly volunteers.

So I think a non negotiable is that we want kids to have character and respect and we want to have accountability on the team.

We want kids to be accountable for their actions and parents to be accountable for their actions and I'm sure every organization does as well.

And you never go through a season where it's perfect.

There's going to be problems that arise every single year and we deal with them the best we can.

But in a perfect world, we would just have families and kids that want to be a part of the organization, want to be good representatives of the club and minimal problems.

That's the non negotiable is just come in here and be a good person and be a good representative of the organization.

So I've seen some of the folks that you're bringing into TPH Virginia, which I think is going to be completely incredible for the area and it's really going to change the landscape of youth hockey and the development thereof within Northern Virginia.

What was it that kind of.

Because all the things in Loudoun at ion happened, it was kind of a whirlwind.

I'm sure for you at times it felt like it was dragging on, but it happened.

From old owners to now it's going to be a performing arts center to now we have different owners to now it's tph.

So what was it that kind of you and Doug wanted to do like with bringing in TPH to kind of to house it under eye on this

has been many years in the works.

This, this goes back almost five years ago.

And Nathan Bowen, who's the founder of tph, him and I played junior hockey against each other literally 30 years ago, 31 years ago.

I've known him a long time.

He went and played college hockey at University of Alabama Huntsville.

And we've maintained a friendship and the, the, the leadership group, the TPH National Leadership Group, they're all just really, really good hockey guys.

And for me, I've always wanted to do something like this in this region because I think it's been the missing piece.

But the most important reason for TPH is just because of the people.

Like I can't do something with people that I don't believe in.

And these guys are leaders in their industry.

They've been doing this a long time.

They're really good people.

They're huge on development and their model has evolved so much over the last 20 years to where it is today.

There's 21 locations spread out across the United States in some of the best hockey markets in the entire region.

And the success is the proof is in the pudding.

Like the model works.

And so the new ownership group and management group, I got to give them a shout out because if it wasn't for Them this wouldn't be happening.

They believe in it as well.

We've gone through like a four or five month negotiation period here to get this across the finish line.

But Doug Sheppard and I, Doug moved here from Boston.

He's originally from the Maritimes.

We played pro hockey together and we've been friends for many, many years.

Ever since he retired from playing, we've kept in touch.

He's worked in the academy industry in Prince Edward island for Andrews Hockey.

He started that, ran it for 10 years.

Very successful.

He's worked as an NHLPA agent.

So Doug and I always had a vision to do something here together.

And he moved here about four years ago and we've been just chipping away little by little trying to get something done.

So this is, this is very gratifying for both of us to finally get this thing across the finish line and bring it here to this region.

I think it's going to offer players something that they've had to leave for in the past.

Kids, I can't tell you how many players just from the Washington Little Caps alone in the last six or seven years that have left for a model like this somewhere else.

Whether it's in Philly or Pittsburgh or Ohio or, you name it, Connecticut.

And we have something here now for these kids.

They don't have to leave.

We've got a great staff, not just Doug and I, but Derek Trudeau is a really good, young, up and coming coach.

27 years old, currently coaching the Little Caps.

Cody Dion's coming, moving here from Colorado.

He's a former pro player, five year head coach for the Colorado Rampage.

So we've got real good people coming in.

We're going to have supporting staff for the Little Caps coaches.

So we feel like we've got something that's going to be really special and it's probably going to take a year to really get to where we want to get to.

So this year we're hoping to have a really good start and then just keep evolving as the years go on.

And the end goal, Eric, is that we have a development model here that our best players in the region don't want to leave.

Like they want to go through this model.

They want to be a part of an organization locally.

It doesn't have to be one that plays at Ion.

This academy services all kids in the region.

It doesn't matter where you play.

We want to help all these kids.

So the long term goal is that this is something that aspiring hockey players want to be a part of and it will Prevent some of our top local talent from wanting to leave to seek this elsewhere.

Yeah, like I said, I think it's going to be game changing for the area.

I think you brought the right staff in.

I'm super happy for both Doug and knew that you finally got this thing across the goal line.

I can't think of better people to kind of be honcho in it.

So I'm excited.

I mean I don't have any experience with any of the tphs other than I've seen the one in Outside Philly.

And then a friend of mine, Jeff Labecchio, he has got a lot to do with TPH St. Louis and getting that to where it is now and just if he's sold on it then I'd be crazy not to be sold on it.

Same with Doug and you.

Yeah.

Thank you.

The St. Louis one is like the.

Yeah, it's so good.

Yeah, so good.

I mean the St. Louis one is.

They're just doing so well there and you can see the success of the St. Louis Junior Blues top to bottom.

And those kids and those coaches have done a great job there.

That that model is, is proof of how Good this works 100%.

So those that are unfamiliar with the TPH model, what does it really mean, what does it entail and how is it different than your traditional skills coach or skills clinics and things like that?

Yeah, so TPH Academy is essentially a school.

It's a student athlete program.

So on a typical day the students will arrive at the location around 8:30 in the morning.

There is a head of academics and a success coach that oversee the education portion of it.

So the kids aren't just walking in there with their tablets and laptops and just scrambling around the building and doing whatever they want.

Like it's a structured educational curriculum.

So they'll show up, they'll do their, they'll do their maybe an hour and a half of schoolwork in the morning and then they're going to do a, some type of a dynamic warm up.

They're going to get on the ice for an hour, hour and 20 minutes and do skill session.

They're going to get off the ice and get in the gym and do sports performance training with, with our coach who we just hired as ex NHL strength and conditioning coach.

So they're going to get in the gym and get out, get out, get out of the gym.

You've got two, two plus hours of real good hardcore training and skill development.

Then they're going to have lunch and get back in the classroom.

For a couple hours and they're done.

So every day you're getting, you're getting skill work on top of what you're doing with your team practices, which means you're not necessarily having to go do lessons at 5 o' clock in the morning or trying to scramble to find ice time when it's, when it's really inconvenient.

You're getting in the gym five days a week, which to me is probably one of the biggest things that our kids are missing.

I think a lot of our kids will do like once a week a 30 minute workout with a strength coach, which is great, but it's not enough.

I think the Europeans are way ahead of us when it comes to development on the body and the physical training part.

So that is a huge asset for these student athletes.

We have a mentorship program, we have guest speakers come in and talk about sports, life, you name it.

There's community, give back.

We'll get in the community and do charity work in the community.

So then the biggest thing is the flexibility.

I mean, you've got kids that are traveling for sports all the time for hockey.

They get back from a tournament from Detroit on a Sunday night at midnight and they're tired on Monday.

They don't have to worry about getting into School at 8 o' clock in the morning.

They come in a little bit of a late start, still get their schoolwork done, maybe have a little bit of a lighter schedule on Monday to accommodate them.

Or maybe you don't even go on the ice Monday, vice versa at the end of the week, you're traveling on a Thursday, you don't have to worry about missing school on Friday.

You can get caught up before that, or you can do your schoolwork on the fly.

So for the student athlete or someone who's really passionate about it, it kind of eliminates a lot of the stress of missed school days and all those types of things as well.

So that's kind of what that model looks like.

It's.

I think it's a really cool thing.

And honestly, I think it's kind of the wave of the future.

If you look around the country, not only the country, but you look around North America, even into Europe now, and all sports, soccer is one that comes to mind.

Like the most successful soccer players in the world, they're all in academies.

These kids are in academies from the time they're 12 years old.

Volleyball, basketball, football.

So I think for hockey players that are really passionate about it and are disciplined enough for this model, I think it.

I don't know if there's anything better for development, quite frankly than this.

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Yeah, I think it's awesome.

I wish that this had existed before my boys moved away.

It definitely would have kept them in the area.

Kept us in the area.

Yeah, it's truly incredible.

I think on a lighter note, like right before this podcast, I saw the News alert about IMG Academy getting hit with the fines for taking cartel money.

So I think as long as.

As long as you guys aren't taking cartel cartel money, I think you'll be all right.

We're not img, that's for sure.

Yeah, no kidding.

But for like, prospective parents that are still kind of on the fence or like, what would you.

What some advice you'd give to them both about this tph, the Academy model and then just development hockey in general?

Yeah, I mean, for the TPH model, I just think that I just see how run down a lot of these kids get now.

I think Covid changed a lot of things.

When Covid happened and everybody went online and then a lot of kids stayed online.

Like my son, for example, coming out of COVID he ended up just staying online and he went to NorthStar Academy for three years.

And those were the three years that his golf skyrocketed, his development skyrocketed because he was able to find time during the day to do extra training for golf.

And I think looking back on it, that was probably what leapfrogged him to, to be the golfer he is today.

So I just think the grind of like.

And listen, this isn't for everybody.

Like, I'm not going to sit here and tell you that this model is perfect for every, every hockey player out there, because it's not.

But for kids that really, truly love the game and it really want to improve, this model is good for them because it eliminates a lot of the stresses with the schedule.

Combining your school, your travel program, trying to get those extra lessons in, whether it's early morning, whatever.

I think it just brings everything together in one school day.

And the team model, which is a whole other conversation.

But the Academy team model is the best model there is yet.

That's where you have a full team that does this together.

They come in during the day and they do everything as a team, including their team practice at like 3 o' clock in the afternoon.

They're going home at 4:15, 4:20.

They're sitting at their dinner table at their house at 5 o' clock and they're done for the day.

No late night practices.

Your rest is proper, your nutrition is good.

Like, that's the model that is an absolute grand slam.

But to answer your question, like what I think, I just think it's for that player that is really driven in hockey and really wants to improve and likes to have a little bit of flexibility in their schedule.

But at the same time, you're taking NCAA accredited courses, you can take AP classes, you can take honors classes.

Like the education piece is, is also really good.

So I just, I think it offers everything for, for that particular type of person.

If we could, if you could time travel back to 14 year old Craig, what's.

What if you, what's one piece of advice you'd leave with him?

I think the biggest thing is I would just say that just to enjoy the present time.

Now I'm 49 years old and I'd do anything to go back to be 14 again and just be playing hockey in my home, my small town, with my friends and my family.

So I think it would just be to enjoy the presence, the present time of my life.

And I think a lot of kids now at 13 and 14 years old, they're so worried about what that next thing is and stuff, and sometimes they don't realize how good they have it at that present time in their life.

And so I'm very grateful for the childhood I had and my family and everything.

So I just think I would, I would just tell that kid to really enjoy that moment that I was in at that time in my life.

Because looking back on it, it was pretty awesome.

Yeah, it's great advice.

I mean, I would go, I'd love to be 14 again as well.

I'd have all the world's problems solved.

No question, man.

No question.

So we covered a lot during this podcast.

We talked about your early hockey journey, your journey through into juniors and pro.

We talked about the Loudon development model.

We talked about tph.

Is there anything we missed or didn't get to touch upon that, that maybe you wanted to discuss?

The only other thing that maybe if you guys would like to touch on is just the, the never ending conversation about Tier 1 versus Tier 2 in youth hockey.

And I know it's a hot topic and it changes all the time.

Like that conversation is different now than it was 10 or 15 years ago.

But I do have those conversations on a daily basis and I don't have all the answers for it.

I just, I have some, some opinions on it.

When parents ask me what the best situation is for their son or daughter, I often hear, I think my son or daughter needs to play against better players.

That's the only way they can develop.

And I'm not going to argue with it.

If that's what they feel, then that's, that's their prerogative.

But I would say that the development is much more than Just playing against good players.

Like, you have to be in a good situation, have good opportunity.

You have to have a coach that believes in you and trusts you.

And I think on the flip side of it, there's also development to be had when you're playing on a team where you can excel a little bit and grow your confidence and have a very influential part of the team.

So I don't necessarily believe that you have to play Tier one at a really young age.

I think that for some people it's very beneficial, and I think for some others, sometimes it can hurt them if they're not ready for it.

The travel and all the things that go along with being a tier one player.

So the only thing that I would say to families that ask that question about that Tier 1, Tier 2, is, I think as you get older, if you want to have opportunities in hockey, I would say there comes a time where you probably do want to get into Tier one hockey, if you can.

Likely at that midget age, like 15U, 16U, 18U.

I think that that's a pretty good time to try to make that leap.

Just the way the game is trending, because the reality of it is it's hard to make it as a tier 2 player.

Now if you're playing 16U to get to a really high level of hockey.

I'm not saying it's impossible, but it's hard.

But if you're 9 or 10 or 11 years old, if you're not playing tier one, it doesn't mean you're not going to have success in hockey.

You may have a path that's different than somebody, and you may get to that level at 14 or 15, and you're on a huge upward trajectory and you end up having a really great hockey career.

So I just think that everybody is different on that.

And I think that sometimes parents push to put their kids into a certain level or certain team because they think that that's the answer, but it really isn't the answer unless it's the right fit for their kid.

So I don't know.

I know that's a hot topic, but I just think that the right coach, the right development model, the right opportunity, the kid being happy, the kid feeling comfortable where they're at, all of those things are incredibly important in their development, not just the.

Not just the level they play.

So Eric and I said when we sat down to start this podcast, or in general, not just this episode, that one of the main goals was to educate people by having guests on, like yourself.

So you briefly brought up the parents and maybe pushing their kids too far.

Is that the biggest trend you see today with parents?

Or is there something else that they unknowingly do or unintentionally do that that stunts their child's development?

If I could be honest, I think that there's a lot of parents out there that care way more than their kids do about what, where their kids are playing.

And I think that's one of the biggest problems that in the conversations I have, I feel like if there's a parent who's a little bit disappointed about a team selection or whatever, as the conversation goes on, I start to uncover that it's the parent that's disappointed more than the kid.

So I think that oftentimes the parents are way more invested on the level that their kids are playing than the kids themselves.

And I think that we all need to do a better job like communicating with our own son and daughters about what they want and what they're comfortable with.

Because I definitely think parents can overstep for sure.

And I think the pressure that's put on kids now to perform, especially at a really young age, sometimes drives them out of the sport.

And I've seen too many players leave hockey because of pressure to perform and pressure to be at a certain level, pressure to live up to the expectations of their parents.

And I mean, we got to remember here, it's a very, very small percentage of, of kids that will ever go on to play at the Division 1 or professional level.

And if they don't, that's okay.

Like you can still be involved in the game your whole life.

You can coach, you can play club hockey, you can play beer league.

So I always say hockey for life.

Like we hate to lose people out of the sport because of pressure.

And I think parents, I mean, listen, we could talk about this all day.

It's not going to change.

It just isn't.

There's nothing we can do to change this culture.

We can try, like case by case by case.

It's a huge problem across the country.

It's a really, really big problem in every organization.

And I just wish the parents would let the kids be kids and just let them play the sport.

Then it goes back to the way I opened this whole conversation.

Like, my parents never pressured me to play high level hockey.

I never, it was enough for me to just play the game and I loved it so much.

And I think these kids have that same mentality.

If the kids, if the parents allow them to just play the sport and just Love it for what it is and spend time with their friends.

Like, I think they're getting way more out of it, to be honest.

Yeah, I think that's the.

We touched on it briefly about the creative play and just the free play and allowing them to go out and just try things without fear of just being reamed into on the bench at 10 years old, where now they're just completely turned off from the game because they got yelled at for just trying to have some fun.

Really.

That's.

That's what it boils down to.

And yeah, I think that you are spot on with your assessment that.

And I've had, unfortunately, I've had some kids on the ice and.

Or on the field, lacrosse in particular, that you can just tell that the kid does not want to be there.

And it is, as a coach and a parent, it's just gut wrenching to see that where the kid just feels torn and doesn't want to be there.

I won't say that I've never pushed the boys, because I have, but.

And I'll give a shout out to where they're playing at now.

And I think it's the first time in a while they're actually having fun again.

And the organization there has done tremendous strides for them developmentally and they're enjoying it.

And they kind of got a little bit of a spark back, which is nice to see.

And I've taken more of a step back role and just being dad.

And hey, they come to me and they want to do film.

All right, cool.

Yeah, we'll do it.

I told them.

And I know you guys have been the same way.

Like, if you put the work in, I will do whatever I can logistically and financially.

But you got to put the work in.

I'm not going to push you.

You got to do this.

This is your goal, right?

This is.

You put it on.

I know you make these vision boards, but if you put a little bit of work in, I. I will do the rest.

Yeah, I mean, I think it's a great conversation.

You guys are.

You guys are bringing up great, great talking points in this podcast.

I think it's really good to get more people talking about these things because the culture in youth hockey really, really needs to change a lot.

And we talk about it all the time.

And don't get me wrong, there's a lot of amazing, amazing people that are doing this for the right reasons.

There's more people doing it for the right reasons than the wrong reasons.

But there's enough people out There that are.

That are doing it for the wrong reasons and it's affecting the overall product of what youth hockey is.

And it's really challenging to coach now.

Coaches are leaving the game.

Referees are leaving the game because of the pressure and the demands and the disrespect that they're given from parents.

So I just hope we can all do a little bit better here.

And then the reflection on the kid.

Right.

Like the kids are always the ones that get punished for these times types of things.

And when I have a situation in my club with a parent, I don't ever.

I don't ever take it out on the kid.

It's not the kid's fault.

The kid just wants to play hockey.

So anyways that the.

The parent.

The parent conversation is.

That's 10 podcasts in a row.

And we couldn't cover it all.

But.

But it's definitely.

I'm glad you guys bring that stuff up is important.

Yeah.

I mean, I think one of the other reasons or a great byproduct of why we do this is to highlight the folks that are actually doing it right and that are doing.

Doing things the right way like yourself and other, I guess that we brought on to show all the good work that you guys have done.

So this was awesome.

I know it's been a long time coming try to get you on, but we felt the timing was right, especially with the launch of your new business.

And I'm super excited to see where it goes over the course of the next couple years.

I think you and Doug are going to do fantastic things there.

I couldn't be more happy.

And I know that TPH is very active on social media, so hopefully we can get some followers up after this and they can check it out.

And you guys are pretty active on social media there from what I've seen.

Yeah, I appreciate it.

And listen, I don't do it perfect.

And nobody does this youth hockey world stuff perfect.

We do our best.

We try to do it with integrity.

And I'm fortunate to have a lot of wonderful people around me that.

That help.

So it's.

It takes a lot of people to run these organizations and very grateful for the coaches and the people I have that support me in my life.

So I appreciate you guys for giving me the opportunity to come on here.

You guys are doing great things.

Yeah, absolutely.

And your wife, she's a rock too.

I know.

I've been very fortunate to meet her several times.

She's awesome.

So.

Yeah, I appreciate that.

She's a golf and Volleyball mom, she.

I get her to the rink like once a year.

It's funny.

Yeah.

So one final question that we ask all of our guests is what is Craig's definition of development?

And that could be all combined.

It could be pieced.

It could be.

What is your definition of development?

I would say probably the obvious would be improvement.

And in fun, I think that the kids that improve and the kids that have fun, I think they're developing.

Honestly, the kids that are getting better at their craft, whether it's skating or shooting or whatever, but they're not necessarily passionate about it and enjoying it as much.

I don't really know if they're developing.

So I think it's a combination of really loving what you're doing and getting better at it at the same time.

That's what I would say.

Spot on.

Great answer.

That's what I think.

Yeah.

All right, Craig, thanks again for joining us, sharing your wealth of knowledge with.

With our audience tonight, and we really appreciate it.

No, thank you guys.

Hopefully maybe some sometime down the road we'll do another one.

I appreciate you guys so much.

Yeah, we'd love to get you on after your first year under the belt of TPH and see if anything's changed for you, change your perspective or what's new and what's on the horizon.

Thanks for all your support, guys, and all the best to you guys in your podcast.

This is great.

Thanks, Greg.

Really appreciate it.

Wish you the best of luck.

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